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 Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...

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$_ARTHAN



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PostSubject: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:06 am

Dear TAK community,
It really intrigues me the fact that the earlier TAK communities (BoneYards era, MPlayer era, GameSpy Arcade era), despite of using Cartographer to create tons of skrimish maps, they never tried to create even the simplest of multiplayer scripts. I understand that, since Cartographer's scripts were for online gaming only, it wasn't possible to test them offline, but still the only thing you needed to test them was:

1) Having 2 PCs at home, connecting them via cable or internet or LAN or whatever, run TA:K at both of them and testing your maps that way or...
2) Having a fellow TAKer you trust and test your sripts online with him or...
3) Asking various TAKers to test your scripts with you.

You may say it was difficult to play online back then, which is partially true, but since the beginning of TAK many people advertised grouped mana maps and convienced (or forced) people to accept and play them. Why on earth the TAK community didn't tried to do the same with Multiplayer Scripts?

As a script maker, I've noticed that many awesome skirmish-like map scripts can be created without even using scripting Rules, Conditions and Actions at all; just by having pre-placed units and building restrictions.
For example, people complained about TAK having very few units per fraction back then and they wished for something more TA-like. This can be simply achieved by pre-placing 5 builders of every race to each player, or pre-placing all 5 monarches to each player or any combination of those (Multimon and Multicultural are such examples). This combines all races into one super-race, giving you more units per side and more strategical options than OTA.
Moreover, people complained about Trebs, Gates, Neos etc. and they wished to be able to choose the allowed units like TA did. Simply, go to "Use Only" and remove any units you dislike and you don't wish to be used in your script. That way, every noob would be happy and enjoyed the game instead of crying about how 'broken' TAK is.
Is a unit underpowered or underused? Pre-place it at both player sides in order to encourage players to use it. Does a unit dies too fast to be of any use? Put a global trigger to heal it for a fixed amount at every step of the game (Fairplay script is such an example).
Let alone all those multiplayer co-operative, tower-defense or campaign-like missions we could have and enjoy if the earlier TAK community wasn't so lousy (or foolish?) about it and used the quite powerful scripting capabilities of Cartographer.

If scripts were used back then, TA:K could have a much better reputation (and playerbase) nowdays.

Think about it, we can have 1v1 naval battles with both players having access to every naval unit in the game and even banning Swapm Beasts adn/or Mer Warriors if they are considered OP etc.
Or having aerial battles above mountainous ranges between 2 players woh have access to every aerial unit and even banning some units/building which can be too lethat towards flying units etc.

So, can anyone give me an answer about that? Why on earth TAK community had never used scripts before?
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thekill9714



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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:33 pm

Well it is probably do to there community not big on online play allot of people in the past by guess like to have games that you can play in both offline and online rather then just one

Also I myself like to have a link to the program Cartographer and any other ones you use also it be nice to have a tutorial on use and making scrips.

Idea of the tutorial It can teach you the most easy basic scrip making
To the advanced harder scrips?

Teach you some tips on what can be helpful in scrip making
EX. when I use MikuMiku Dance it is best to copy all the stuff you have done just in case you mess something up or mistakenly remove what you have done this lets you fix it easy and fast

Ex. When doing voice recording you may like to try to use vocalizes with animal sounds and mix your voice into it and mess around till it sound like the monster or demon voice you like for your game

Ex. When running a minecraft server make sure you have the IP right make sure you typed 25565 when port forwarding it and check your advanced system settings under system you can get to system by right clicking Computer or going to your control panel
Once there click advanced system settings open environment variables find path hit edit and add the address to your java bin into the path make sure you have the address right or the Command prompt will not work when you type cd server java -jar craftbukkit-1.6.2-R0.1.Jar or whatever the craft bukkit is named

Ex. When making Table Top RPGs it is best to have a well based systems for each thing a way to do so is check your D6 to D20 or higher and try to relate your system to a logical way to the dice also use hints from other table tops to help you make your gaming systems

Ex. When modding your Men of war assault Squad or Garrys mod remember to keep back ups of the file your modding

There was some top Examples by me but you be looking more at tips for your scripting
I bet some of them can be used in scripting such as copying your work just in case you make mistakes or making backups

I love to learn how you do everything with scrips in this game and if I can learn the advanced stuff to

Hope you can do this ARTHAN


-Shawn

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[K]Double



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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:20 pm

We never did it because we enjoyed the thrill and magic of the game. Cd/dc maps all day long was all the fun we needed to have. Unfortunately we have devolved from that.

So answer me this... Why don't you guys play the original maps to this game?
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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:51 pm

i say what Double sad in last sentence!!!
Why don't you guys play the original maps to this game?

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When you lose, don't lose the lesson.
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Sage
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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:36 pm

Some of the cd/dc maps can already be played online with the script option on. This is why many back then did not bother on making them bc they could already play them online either on script or regular mode. In fact, we played ground war 4 player ffa the other day and it was pretty fun. I'd tell the new players to try them if they are bored with the 3rd party maps that they regularly play.

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[K]Double



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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:16 pm

Also, all of the cd/dc scripts are based on pvp competitive play. I have never seen a player made script that is based on the idea of pitting ones wits against another human player. Sure, the trolls and zombie scripts provide entertainment for me a few times a year, but they are so polarized as far as using your TAK mental arsenal that the structure of the script itself become stagnant.

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$ MalinOMW



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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:41 pm

weird that this game have ?+10? races/mods, but almost no any advanced* script/setting maps which are (in my eyes) easier to make

*ok there is the very advanced single player map made by rammstein, ( you control "snake" Very Happy)
less advanced: some co-op arthan maps, my random race map (not sure if i publiced it lol), my 1 kings of the hill modifications (allow 8 players, and each team/player need to control hill for over 240s (4minutes, not 1 second after 15 minutes)
tons of weird tower defense map (specially popular one made by ZRock)

also dunno who made it but it was very entertaining for me "Mars Wars" its more like mod inside map than script map, but still its nice Very Happy

no any: tag, cat mice, capture the flag, control zone, etc etc, weird :O

BTW LoL come from Dota, Dota come from warcraft 3 map, and that come from starcraft map xD

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$_ARTHAN



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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:47 pm

^
|
That's what I was alking about.

Look how popular SC's scripted maps became and TA:K had not even a single early custom-made playable script map to brag about!
I am not saying that scripts should have taken the place of cd/dc maps, but their versatility could have satisfied many more people and shut the mouths of TA:K haters, especially if combined with modding powers.
People who can/could be satisfied with scripts:

1) Co-op versus AI fans:
Problem: they can't have many AI opponents at the same time in GR and/or the AI opponents are just too weak.
Solution: Co-op multiplayer scripts versus a single powerful advanced AI opponent. This can be either tower defense or whatever...

2) Single player Campaign missions fans:
This was possible back then only by HpiPack, HpiView and Cartographer. However, due to Rammstein's addon that allows multiplayer scripts to be played as single player maps, we can create single player missions by just using Cartographer's scripts.

3) TAers who wanted TAK units splitted into 2 races instead of 4 for greater unit variety:
Problem: If there was a single player game or online 1v1 there was no way to share units between allies with the standard "press D" method.
Solution: 1v1, 2v2 etc. scripts where both players start with all monarchs and/or all builders, having access to every unit in the game by the very beginning.

4) PvP script fans:
Problem: The scripts included at OTAK are few; there are no capture the flag maps, for example.
Solution: Use Cartographer to create even more pvp maps for greater variety.

5) More-than-a-single-resource fans:
Problem: TAK includes just a single resource, mana, and this is boring...
Solution: Special PvP scripts with more than one resources. This can occur if one or more pseudo-resources are created as 'flags' which are used to summon units. Not very attractive but it could satisfy a bunch of TAers and other TAK haters.

6) Some TAK units are useless:
Problem: New patches or mods made to solve the imbalances of such units may split TAK's community.
Solution: Scripted maps based upon these units or encouraging their usage can be made without splitting the community.

As for playing 3rd party instead of cd/dc, when I played TAK online for the first time I thought only cd/dc maps whould be played. But it became obvious that wasn't the case, since I've played only on 3rd plarty maps for the rest of the week.
I would personally like to see more love for cd/dc masterpieces. Smile
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[K]Double



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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:07 pm

Quote :

As for playing 3rd party instead of cd/dc, when I played TAK online for the first time I thought only cd/dc maps whould be played. But it became obvious that wasn't the case, since I've played only on 3rd plarty maps for the rest of the week.
I would personally like to see more love for cd/dc masterpieces.

Thank you for answering my question. There is a certain "flow" to CD/DC that I think a lot of people just don't understand. Instead of being given the same amount of resources at the beginning, you obviously must earn those resources through battle. This makes the game a lot more rigorous in combat.
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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:22 pm

Sounds brilliant

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The more a man knows, the more he forgives.
A loving heart is the truest wisdom.
Some men see things as they are, and say, "Why?" Still others dream of things that never were and say, "Why not?
When you lose, don't lose the lesson.
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship.
When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to correct it.
Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values.
Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.
Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality.
Trust because you are willing to accept the risk, not because itís safe or certain.
The fool who knows he is a fool is for that very reason wise. The fool who thinks himself wise is the greatest fool of all.
We can try many ways to get rid of darkness, but none is as effective as simply increasing the light.
Life gives us time only love gives us meaning.
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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:58 pm

wow long.

comment about original and non-original maps:
Spoiler:
 

comment about scripts
Spoiler:
 

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$ MalinOMW



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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:51 pm

oh so there are more maps than i thought (anyway most of them are new, but)

somewhat good to see other point of view of scripts "non write standarts"

who the hell made Mars Wars Very Happy ?

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PostSubject: Re: Question for early TAK community (BY, MPlayer, GSA) and scripts...   Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:47 pm

$ MalinOMW wrote:
who the hell made Mars Wars Very Happy?

wqaopl, iirc

People interested in scripts could check this too: http://kingdoms.heavenforum.org/t1276-ultimate-tak-map-pack
suggestions/help welcome.

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