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Clay4141

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PostSubject: Tier Structure for all races   Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:11 am

Maybe you can try renaming the builders/builders with Tiers similar to this; like we used in the build structures?

Zhon-
beast hanlder -tier 1
beast tamer- tier 2
cannoe/beast lord- tier 3
Shaman-tier 4
ruins/baphomite- tier 5

Aramon-
barracks- tier 1
magebuilder- tier 2
dragon ship/keep- tier 3
Aco- tier 4
flying builder/temple- tier 5

Creon-
smithy- tier 1
mechanic/ship yard- tier 2
gunboat/academy- tier 3
chief engineer- tier 4
balloon/capital- tier 5

Taros-
cabal- tier 1
mason/abyss- tier 2
pirateship/temple- tier 3
dark priest- tier 4
summoner/temple - tier 5

Veruna-
enclave- tier 1
priestess/seafort- tier 2
flagship/citadel- tier 3
priest of lihr- tier 4
sphynx/sphynx temple- tier 5

+++++++++++++++

Tier 1 = first buildings
Tier 2 = 2nd buildings and (main builders) -mb -pries -mas -mech -tamer -t2 bc they build t2 defensive units and are built by the first building
Tier 3 = 3rd buildings and building ship - built by t2 builders
Tier 4 = (mana builders)-aco -ce -sha -priest -dp -built by tier 3 building
Tier 5 = Last Building and (defense builders) - built by t4 builders
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Sage
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PostSubject: Re: Tier Structure for all races   Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:38 pm

I'm going to explain the way I saw it. I might be wrong, but it needs to be discussed.

Aramon example:

barracks- tier 1 because it makes t1 units
magebuilder- tier1 because it makes t1 structures
dragon ship- tier1 because it makes t1 structures (magebuilder and barracks structure/units)
keep- tier 2 because it makes stronger units than t1 barracks
Aco- tier 2 because it makes tier2 structures
temple- tier 3 because it makes units stronger than the t2 keep
flying builder- tier3 because it makes structures stronger than previous builders

The way I see it is 2 separate tier lists. One for units and the other for structures.
I don't think it matters that a tier1 mage builder builds the dragonship, we are gonna call the dragon ship tier2 because it was built by a lower tier.

Again, the way I see it is that a tier should have a higher tier number because of how strong units/structures are being built by this tier. For example, the dragonship builds the same units and structures by a magebuilder and barracks; therefore, it should be called the same tier number. Why would it be called a higher tier when it builds no stronger units nor structures?

If the dragonship and the keep are the same tier number, don't you think they should be able to fight against each other equally? The structures and units that the dragonship can build are no match for what the keep can uses to fight with.

The reason I made two lists of tiers is to separate structures with units. In this case, what the aco can build doesn't make any sense with what the temple of anu can build.
It does make sense comparing the mage builder with the aco because the aco is on a higher structure tier compared to the structure level that the mage builder can build.

What does everyone think of this? I think we need to hear peoples opinions.
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Wqaopl

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PostSubject: Re: Tier Structure for all races   Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:03 pm

enathing could billd anything aslong as the race struchers are similer is thay always have bean then its even and u dont need to confuse things.

however clays idea makes the have verry linea and harder to get into making bettrer units cos u are always tring to billd the next tier. and if u loos all of one tier billders then u loos all that tier.

as sage has posted it sould be baced on merit and qualaty of unit. why cant we just stik to three tiers then.

if not why not have this tier list...

1) zommby & inp
2) sordmen & archers
3) trolls & exacuters
4) billders (mage bilder/dark mason)
5) wachtowers &c age demons
6) beast tamer & barraks
7) zerker, barbareon, dark hand, & cats
8 ) mage archers & mustkateas
9) stronghold & mage tower
10) keep & temple
11) sky kights , kights, canons, fire mage,
12) aco , sharmons
13) balisters & granaders
14) dragons
15) mons
16) gods

i have not playd the mod much dut i will get round to it Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Tier Structure for all races   Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:53 pm

Well I understand where you are coming from... But you are now changing the original Tiers of the game.

The Abyss/Beast Tamer were always tier 2 buildings. Making them tier 1 is just downgrading them to be more equivilent to the Cabal/Barracks/BeastHandler/Smithy/Enclave. So your telling me, Taros and Zhon will have an overabundence of Tier 1 units now?

TA:Kingdoms original build structure consists of 4 Tiers.
Lokken
-Cabal-T1
-Mason is a tier 1 unit in OTAK(original tak) which builds T2 defenses
-Abyss-T2
-Temple-T3
Anything built by DarkPriest-T4

Elsin
-Barracks-T1
-Mage builder is a tier 1 unit which builds T2 defenses
-Keep-T3
Anything built by Acolyte- T4

------------------------------------
What if we dont change the original buildings and try to add in these new builders without changing the original tiers? I really am against changing the abyss and beast tamer and such units to tier 1, they belong tier 2. Now lets talk about the seafort/shipyard and the flagship and builder boats....its a whole nother ball game here.

In original tak, the seafort/ship yard are tier 2. This makes them the equivilent for the Tier 2 buildings. If you look at it like this, Zhon has Beast Tamer, Taros has Abyss, Veruna has Sea Fort, and Creon has shipyard. Aramon has nothing.... (which they dont need.)

Veruna has the flagship. The 'boat builder' as we will call it. It is a tier 2 builder than can build tier 1/tier 2 stuff. (I appoligize for calling it a tier 3 in the above post, that was incorrect) I like Sages idea of making the boats T1.

The New Era, allows each race to have a 'boat builder.' To balance the new 'boat builders' equivilently would require each race to build the 'boat builder' as T1 units. See below posting.......


Last edited by Clay4141 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:08 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Tier Structure for all races   Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:02 pm

I recognize that I did messed up on the abbys and the beast tammer.

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PostSubject: Re: Tier Structure for all races   Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:24 pm

Or we can make the builder boats all buildable by the the monarchs. And make them T1 like you insisted..... we could then have all builders still make them.... And seaforts/shipyards can still be tier 2 along side their counterpart beast tamers and abyss.

I kinda like ^^^^ this ^^^^ better....
just will take a lil more restructuring...

Lokken
-Cabal-T1
-Mason is a tier 1 unit in OTAK(original tak) which builds T2 defenses and T2/T3 buildings/builders.
-Pirate Ship- T1 builder boat (built by Dark Mason and Lokken)
-Abyss-T2
-Temple-T3
-DarkPriest-T3 utility/mana builder. Used for making building(er)s/mana resources and other special techniques. Can build 'flying structure builder unit' and T4 building
-Temple- T4 T4 -can build T4 units
-Summoner- T4 -can build T4 defense


Elsin
-Barracks-T1
-Mage builder is a tier 1 unit which builds T2 defenses and T2/T3 buildings/builders.
-Dragon Ship- T1 builder boat (built by Mage Builder and Elsin)
-Keep-T3
Acolyte- T3 utility/mana builder. Used for making buildings/mana resources and other special techniques. Can build 'flying structure builder unit' and T4 building
-Temple- T4 -can build T4 units
-Flying Builder- T4 -can build T4 defense


Kirenna
-Enclave- T1
-Priestess is a tier 1 unit which builds T2 defenses and T2/T3 buildings/builders.
-Flagship- T1 builder boat (built by seafort and priestess and Kirenna)
-Sea Fort- T2
-Citadel-T3
Priest of Lihr- T3 utility/mana builder. Used for making buildings/mana resources and other special techniques. Can build 'flying structure builder unit' and T4 building
-Sphynx Temple- T4 -can build T4 units
-Sphynx T4 -can build T4 defense


Thirsha
-Beast Handler- T1 is a tier 1 mobile builder unit that is compared to the T1 building of each race. It can build T2 defense, and T2/T3 builders.
-Beast Tamer- T2
-Cannoe- T1 builder boat (built by Thirsha, Beast Handler and Beast Tamer- yes its a T2 builder but it makes up for the T1 lack of building, also it can be compared to the T2 buildings that produce their side builder boats.
-Beast Lord- T3
Shaman- T3 utility/mana builder. Used for making buildings/mana resources and other special techniques. Can build 'flying structure builder unit' and T4 building
-Ruins- T4 -can build T4 units
-Baphomite- T4 -can build T4 defense


Sage
-Smithy- T1
-Mechanic is a tier 1 unit which builds T2 defenses and T2/T3 buildings/builders.
-GunBoat- T1 builder boat (built by shipyard and mechanic and Sage)
-Shipyard- T2
-Academy- T3
Chief Engineer- T3 utility/mana builder. Used for making buildings/mana resources and other special techniques. Can build 'flying structure builder unit' and T4 building
-Captial- T4 -can build T4 units
-Structure Balloon- T4 -can build T4 defense


-----------------------------------------
That is the build structure I would think would work best for The added units to the original TAK tiers. Do you like those ideas? There is still more to talk about involving the other Builders/Buildings. But I wanted to discuss this more before we move on....
-----------------------------------------

Ok... I think this is a combined structure for both ideas.....
No additional Tiers were added. I double checked and TAK has officialy 4 Tiers....
And this Tier Structure allows your boats to remain T1, the masons and priesstess to remain T1 builders bc they come from the T1 buildings, Chief Engineers & Acos and such to become T3 because they come from the OTAK T3 buildings.... but still keep dragons/fallen angels in T4(just built by the new building) AND now a new flying builder unit for all races so that they can all create new higher level defenses......and still remaining in the T4 level....
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PostSubject: Re: Tier Structure for all races   Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:06 pm

I like this idea, but I would make a slightly change. Since the t3 priests are not followed by t2 builders, I think the mage builder could be t2, and elsin could be considered t1. The monarchs should be considered t1 because t2 builders can build stronger structures such as bastions, strongholds, etc... We atleast need a t2 since it's not on your list.

Aramon:
Structure Builders:
-Elsin: T1
-Mage builder: T2
-Dragon Ship-: T1
-Acolyte- T3
-Flying Builder- T4

Unit Builders:
-Elsin: T1
-Barracks: T1
-Mage builder: T2 (ships)
-Dragon Ship-: T1 (builds T1 Units)
-Keep: T3
-Temple: T4

Veruna:
Structure Builders:
Kirenna: T1
Priestess: T2
FlagShip: T2 (Builds T2 structures)
Priest of lihr: T3
Sphinx: T4

Unit Builders:
Kirenna: T1
Seafort: T2
Citadel: T3
Sphynk of lihr: T4

Creon:
Structure Builders:
Sage: T1
Mechanic: T2
Gunboat: T1
Engineer: T3
Balloon: T4

Unit Builders:
Sage: T1
Navy Yard: T2
GunBoat: T1
Academy: T3
Capitol Atys: T4

Taros:
Structure Builders:
Lokken: T1
Dark Mason: T2
Pirateship: T1
Dark Priest: T3
Summoner: T4

Unit Builders:
Lokken: T1
Cabal: T1
(Pirateship: T1)
Abbys: T2
Temple: T3
Temple of Belial: T4

Zhon:
Structure Builders:
Thrisha: T1
Tammer: T2
Cannoe: T1
Shaman: T3
Baphometite: T4

Unit Builders:
Thrisha: T1
Handler: T1
Tammer: T2
Lord: T3
Tomb: T4
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PostSubject: Re: Tier Structure for all races   Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:36 pm

Ok that works!!!! Just one last thing....

why is the flagship T2 and not T1 like the rest of the builder boats? Is it because it has those extra structures? Looks chill to me.







And.... have we ever thought about a tier 1 building for zhon? We could possibly use the treehouse buildings from that race....? I know to some it might be silly, but its an idea to throw out there.... All units from the beast handler could go to this building, and then the beast handler could be reduced in cost and then become similar to the magebuilder/mechanics.....

Can we at least try it to see how it works?




Also if u wanted to, im sure we can find a pretty cool T2building for Aramon.... be it land or water... and split up some stuff....

just an example...
Church-
mage archer
knight
spear knight
titan
priest
assassin

Keep-
barbarian
hand cannoneer
cannoneer
demolition wagon
flame cannon
rolling tower
grenadier
joreth of heldain


.... or not, just looks like a lack of units then?
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PostSubject: Re: Tier Structure for all races   Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:40 pm

Axl gave me this idea long time ago, and didn't pay attention to him because I was barely starting with the mod. It's not a bad idea, but I need more time to think about it.

I put the flagship as t2 because it builds similar structures than the priestess, but for water.

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