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 Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf

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DeeKay
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:31 pm

Clean = Resurrect in TA:K, depends on unit. (TA:K just thinks "why clean this corpse when you can RESURRECT it?")

The unload question is pretty useful, if it is what I am thinking, just like that:


Numbers - where the units will be unloaded respectively, without parking, parking is the worst thing in units' unloading, if it were like Patrol, it was acceptable. ^^'

Obs.: I tried to make it better but it got worse than it's now, so, I will keep this... And I hope you all understand what I meant. =D
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:38 pm

DK-Manolo wrote:
Obs.: I tried to make it better but it got worse than it's now, so, I will keep this... And I hope you all understand what I meant. =D

u read in my imagination (or u have the same Very Happy )

also second version could be from center to borders of box (sounds more difficult to predict where units gona be unloaded but maybe not :S )
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:03 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:23 am

Transport works as a LIFO (last-in-first-out) list. If you load 6 Barbarians and then 2 Swordsmen on your Ark and then unload them, the 2 Swordsmen will be unloaded first followed by your Barbarians.
Btw, load box is pretty common, easy to be discovered and extremely useful. All those brats complaining about unit transport in TAK just weren't bright (or patient) enough to discover the load box thing which works like a dream in every level of competitive gameplay, except for the highest one where you need to know which unit will be unloaded first.
Cleaning & ressurecting icon, as Landherr says, is basically the same thing. Though I knew about it, I never though of using it to mass ressurect corpses, good idea!
In the end, TAK is nowhere an incomplete game (if TAK is incomplete, then the 'complete' TAK would be like 100 times better than any other RTS ever made or something! Yes, I am biased, but aren't all those mindless brats who follow Blizzard or Microsoft in whatever it does biased too?). It just lacked a tutorial in order to explain you how to use Patrol instead of Move or how to drag a box with some commands or how to use Ctrl + Z,A,W etc. commands and Ctrl + 1,2,3... for groups and Alt + 1,2,3... for formations. But how Cavedog could know that 90% of gamers and reviewers are such idiotic beings not to discover the obvious by themselves?
And I hope they will stop that "AI sucks" thing (TA had worse AI you silly TAers!) and I have yet to find an AI I can't understand the way it thinks by playing a few games with it. Also, stop the "pathfinding in TAK" sucks please, cause there is no RTS with proper pathfinding and plenty famous RTSes with worse ones! In AoM, in big games soldiers stack on walls and take something like 10 seconds to move around it if not manually driven. Also, big units like Polyphemus or Hydra just walk around the battlefield in an attempt to find a target to attack and, if you leave them alone, they take something like 10 seconds to attack something. In first versions of CoH, I once send my Sniper to follow a short route to garisson in a house and he instead followed exactly the oppose direction, he turned 180 degrees, moved and fell on an Axis army and wiped out! And then you talk me about TAK's pathfinding? Give me a brake!
But on topic, box commands can be handy if used wisely.
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:48 am

does the box disappear when everything in it has been resurrected or will it keep resurrecting things that die in it the whole game? X
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:51 am

It will disappear, just like it will disappear when loading units, or killing units etc.
(After your unit is done ressurrecting/clearing area X, it wont do it again unless you box area X again)

Btw I cant imagine making risen wolves without the box ressurect.
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:53 am

Rachy wrote:
does the box disappear when everything in it has been resurrected or will it keep resurrecting things that die in it the whole game? X

hmm
there only gonna be ressurected/cleaned units where were "during boxing" if something gonna appear "during cleaning/ressurecting" it wont be ressurected (but i think i never test it so i might be wrong xD )

for sure it not work for whole game
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:28 pm

clean is completely different than resurrect

clean has the default hotkey C, and can be clicked in the menu

resurrect can't. so you can't make a "resurrect box", that doesnt exist

clean will wipe corpses rly fast. animate/resurrect will take longer (except for risen wolfs)

you have a clean box, with the feature that it won't clean animatable corpses, they will be animated or resurrected

the only box thats obvious and easy to learn alone is the select box. the others arent obvious. when someone thinks about cleaning, he will select a cleaner and click on the feature he wants to clean. same when he wants to animate/resurrect. since theres very few public information (although there is more today than anytime before), people will hardly learn those other boxs alone

also i think ctrl+stop is even harder. the information was nowhere. when someone wants the mana back of a unit hes making in a factory, he will hardly think "ah, i'll hold ctrl and press random buttons on the menu".. no1 thinks that, i was surprised when manolo found out about that one

clay and his smurf took days to notice ctrl+patrol and ctrl+move. he actually noticed it when trying to answer to my question. and ultimately he answered wrongly. cos u cant use ctrl+s as he said. thats a common silly newb mistake. cant use ctrl+p and ctrl+m for that too lol...

on topic, box commands are useful if used as a habit. ur just being wise right now, u hardly ever think during game, u just do it

spagg u can imagine making risen wolves without the box clean because thats how u played tak for most of your time. most people play most of their time never using attack box cos they never knew it, because simply clicking to attack (or movefighting/patrolling) was enough for them and they started worrying about other things

there are tutorials in tak, but not about everything. there is no smurfing tutorial but people are pro at it. learning tak is a bit harder...

there is a tutorial of how to use ctrl+Z, etc. its in the manual, on the hotkeys list provided by cavedog

load box isnt a matter of patience imo... the first "official" tutorial about it was released by gog.com when they adulterated the original manual

just dropping some knowledge on u guys so u can use it in a game and pretend you always did it has a habit... its better to see ungrateful players than players as bad as they used to be many time ago

omw wrote:
(but i think i never test it so i might be wrong xD )
you are...
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:56 pm

whenever I want to clean a single feature/corpse I make a box around it
(right click mouse on the ground > slide it to another location)

I dunno if its like this without right click interface but I didnt know about the Clean shortcut (C), nor do I have used the clean button

Ill test on single player how to use boxes without right click interface because I really cant understand why could it be so hard to find out accidentaly

landher wrote:
spagg u can't imagine making risen wolves without the box clean because thats how u played tak for most of your time
fixed

edit1- not only to box clean or box ressurect, I also box units that are alone to attack, because with right click interface on its hard to tell if the mouse is the attack icon / clean icon (in mouse click interface the only thing that changes when hovering something with the mouse is a small pixel (color changes, attack = red) so its much easier boxing around since its hard to tell if ur mouse is "ready for an order")
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:04 pm

and u did it ever since u were a newb? since u were average i'd believe.. well i understand now its easy to learn with right click interface... but its not with left
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:21 am

I never knew about it and nobody has mentioned it in 14 years to me.. It's hard to discover because you wouldn't usually go near the CTRL button when cleaning I'd have used shift and selected one at a time and probably still will depending on situation. I don't see how left or right click changes anything? X
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:34 am

But then again I just played a game and it amazed me that when I numbered buildings, the units came out numbered. Always learning. LOL! X
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:02 pm

Apparently you guys commenting on this old topic has given me email updates..... People still play this game???? WTF
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:27 pm

Yes quite a lot of people at the minute. Come to www.gameranger.com to play Smile You know you want to, so addictive! haha x
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:08 pm

Rachy wrote:
But then again I just played a game and it amazed me that when I numbered buildings, the units came out numbered. Always learning. LOL! X
its in ta but i never use it in neither ta nor tak...

but it can be useful when make +++ units like zombies...warriors... and in larger maps, or in maps with lots of mana, for just about anything

good sharing... i think i never used it also because i dont use ctrl+number a lot, and because of that i wasnt rly sure if it also worked for tak... i prolly checked that once but forgot about it cos i never rly had the habit of using it

the problem is i guess you cant undo the number? you can just change to another number

Bl4ckR4v3N wrote:
People still play this game???? WTF
in tak this question is almost as old as the game lol
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:25 pm

I use the building numbers alot on T3 buildings. That way I can focus fire with the stroke of a key, unless I change the production order.
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:35 pm

Rachy wrote:
Yes quite a lot of people at the minute. Come to www.gameranger.com to play Smile You know you want to, so addictive! haha x

No I really don't think I will come back. But thanks for the offer hun.
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:57 am

I suppose to un-number something you just number a bird or something that is going to die anyway but I've never needed to and I can't see why you would.. I was thinking more like when you have fire mages and want them all to be no.1 so you can change to 2nd attack easier but then it wouldn't work because you'd have the building as the same number still and the attack bar wouldn't show. Other than what you said (player) I can't see how it would be useful, which is a shame! x

Oh and by the way I've just read the point of this post (lol) and think that it would be a great idea to kill units and res. liches as they cost so much. And I never knew Engineer could res!! lol. XX
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:11 am

Rachy wrote:
Oh and by the way I've just read the point of this post (lol) and think that it would be a great idea to kill units and res. liches as they cost so much. And I never knew Engineer could res!! lol. XX

I thought about exectutioner ressurect, but it wasnt so much effective as i expected, (its quite time consuming to get death body also dark hand isn't as fast as spirit wolf, but with tons of dark priest(but they are expensive, but ghouls are good but ...hmm nvm))
{blablabla mode on}but if koreans would migrate from SC to TA:K that would be one of the basics strategy which should made huge advantage for taros and they gonna ban this, but as long as no one here have enough apm, and attention spreaded (that trick need some focus, and koreans are good at playing in 10 areas in one second with big attention for almost every area){/off}


I quess you didn't play iron plaque campaign ,in one mission you have 1 or something enginner, in briefing you can read that enginner can ressurect automatons and its quite usefull, in that mission


to un-number (units) there are some options
1.number something else
a)new units
b)*just click/box with shift that units in group which u don't want to be selected anymore in group, and ctrl+(1-10)
2.number nothing (selected none of units then ctrl+(1-10))

*example i got 10 swordsman and 2 archers in group "3" i want only those 10 swordsman in group "3"
3 > shift+click (box/click) 2 archers > ctrl+

group hotkeys didn't usefull that much in that game cause of ctrl+z and no limits in selecting (in SC there is no way without grouping army)
and probably cause of one simply frontline 3rd style maps
i use them only for holy dragon (good if i got many drakes/units etc and its sometimes hard to see where he is LOL (hotkey + t, for track selected unit))
and for drops(rocs/angels/gs) where i hotkey every roc which got some units
and hardly ever i hotkey units which gonna be in roc (i prefer click one by one jungles and give them order (cause they usually stuck with auto-aim on archers (they aiming archers "something inside" of group)), and only 1 jungle need to focus on 1 unit

also i think no one (expect AI ofc) use formation (alt+number) (fastest unit get the speed of the slowest one, also this probably got some advantage but i never used it (LOL i should try)
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:45 am

Formations just don't work in RTSes, becuase every RTS becomes click-fest in high levels of gameplay. Take AoM, for example, which has plenty of formation types. In the end, micromanaging your units by double clicking them is faster, easier and more effective, though formations are far from useless.
In my War scripted maps, formations can help because neither you nor your opponent can replace any casualties.
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:50 pm

in a game like TAK you don't need that much clicking... just have some decent speed, theres no point in clicking a lot if 8/10 of the clicks are pointless

formations can be useful, but people will usually forget about it as they dont have the habit... it can prevent u from having to micro in some circumstances, especially on larger games

OMW wrote:
2.number nothing (selected none of units then ctrl+(1-10))
thanks

though i think you should be less obsessed with koreans.. there r plenty of top players from other areas of the world. of course its becoming each time more cultural in korea but.

i have seen koreans coming here, they get owned. koreans dont own because they are koreans. they own because they are not new to sc. any of them coming to tak they would be destroyed even after 2 years playing hard. i think i can resurrect lichs and pay the dark hand's cost and be time effective. actually if u kill around 8 execs and turn them into lichs it pays the dark hands cost but im no sure

also, repeaaating repeating, if u kill some execs and turn them into ghouls in a mana short map, it can be effective u dont even need a lot of speed

there is pretty decent apm in tak, maybe not from you i'll agree, but since no one ever played tak for money u just need some decent speed, some decent logic and you wont lose a angvirz maze game with 3x more mana in zhon x zhon
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:02 am

player1 wrote:
in a game like TAK you don't need that much clicking... just have some decent speed, theres no point in clicking a lot if 8/10 of the clicks are pointless

formations can be useful, but people will usually forget about it as they dont have the habit... it can prevent u from having to micro in some circumstances, especially on larger games

OMW wrote:
2.number nothing (selected none of units then ctrl+(1-10))
thanks

though i think you should be less obsessed with koreans.. there r plenty of top players from other areas of the world. of course its becoming each time more cultural in korea but.

i have seen koreans coming here, they get owned. koreans dont own because they are koreans. they own because they are not new to sc. any of them coming to tak they would be destroyed even after 2 years playing hard. i think i can resurrect lichs and pay the dark hand's cost and be time effective. actually if u kill around 8 execs and turn them into lichs it pays the dark hands cost but im no sure

also, repeaaating repeating, if u kill some execs and turn them into ghouls in a mana short map, it can be effective u dont even need a lot of speed

there is pretty decent apm in tak, maybe not from you i'll agree, but since no one ever played tak for money u just need some decent speed, some decent logic and you wont lose a angvirz maze game with 3x more mana in zhon x zhon


SC2 would like to have a word with your ignorance. When you're done with them, you can go talk to LOL.

The reason Koreans are so amazing at computer games is because they treat them like a career. Its more than just a game to them.

So to go as far to say that a Korean would come to TA:K and lose even after 2 years of play is absurd, not to mention fantasy. I'd give a legit SC2 pro player 3 months and they could wipe the floor with your \"***\". TA:K is one of the easiest games out there, and no level of years worth of experience could keep a dedicated person from mastering it in months.

Shy, is a pro Korean player from League of Legends. He played LoL for only 6 months. Before that he played Chaos, which is a (Korean DoTa clone). LoL is a very in depth game. And he managed to learn it and compete on the pro level in only 6 months. Yet you think that TA:K would take someone 2 years+ to be good? Get off your pedestal.
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:29 am

no one plays tak professionally. he will lose after a year (to me i was saying). and if i feel someone is getting close u think ill just sit and wait. no man i know my shit as well, its 2013 there is information and skill everywhere, and i have the lead. they would need to play tak 24/7 (and no one does that) to dominate in 3 months, and i wouldn't need.

also its impossible to master a rts, each year these games improve

i think tak is quite deep in possibilities and uc, tak is hard (to be the best considering the current situation) because its not only concepts, there are things that u can only learn in the streets. and u gotta dig up your on data at times, you wont find a lot on the web to learn tak having 0 tak experience

in those games u can get pro after having some solid resource knowledge of the game and rts background. since u have tons of videos/recorded games, stuff everywhere on the web and can get a 1v1 opponent in 10 seconds

for all those reasons i think tak is a hard game if the goal is dominating it, consiedring i am here. it takes brain and humility, not smurfing and forums shit talking. im not in a pedestal. im just realist. and you're garbage at both tak and all the others anyway

and not all koreans treat it as a career. but like i said before its true, it is popular there... yet there r top players from other parts of the world that even reside in korea... and since there is no korean culture in tak, it doesnt take a korean to dominate tak, it takes a great player no matter the nationality

btw ggs with your other smurf. if u cant play tak just \"****\' off cos i can and i know what im talking about. keep up the good smurfing and hf. im not saying im the best rts player in the world thats ridiculous, im saying i know what im talking especially when it refers to tak, better than anyone else especially u scrub
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:32 am

TA:K is very easy to learn, but only in the basics of Play the Machine. There are hotkey commands and strategies to this game that few ever bothered to learn, despite most of them were either too obvious or mentioned into the manual of the game. If it was such an easy game to master, then why almost no one knew that TAB brings full-screen minimap, that you can use drag-box with Load and Clean commands, that when melee units patrol they actually attack their targets? Why they didn't learn how to make groups, formations, all those Ctrl + "Key" commands? 50% of the people who played TAK just learnt some basics of the basics, but they though they've mastered the game, until they were defeated by someone who knew those basics and raped them easily. As a result, they commited ragequit instead of learning how to play (that's a reason TAK has so few players, in addition to its awful reviews and the idiotic hatred of most TAers).
It is easy to learn the basic hotkeys, tricks and tactics in famous RTSes exactly because they're famous and well-known from head to toe. On the other hand, even the most "proffesional" TAKers have yet to discover everything in TAK...
Btw, stop talking and come to play, dear BlackRaven, if you wish to be taken seriously. Otherwise, you're no different than all these shit-talkers who never appear in the game. Seriously, if you keep trash-talking in our TAK forums without playing and knowing our game, then I will also appear to your StarcraftII forums and talk shit about how awesome SC-player I am despite the fact I've never played SC2...
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PostSubject: Re: Compare: Hunter vs Risen Wolf   Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:39 am

i know its all pointless, but its because of scrubs like that black that i will put out my views because well, in a game bankrupted the year after it was released, "achievements" dont mean anything, skills do

there is a guy in ta who used to play pro sc2. they are not so ahead in apm. each of these games are a science for each of them. u cant be top in 3months in lol if u never played the game before, even if have huge rts background and never get off ur chair. tak is quite unique and u wont be the best at it in a year having 0 tak experience, even if u play it for a living though no one ever made a living playing tak lol

you need experience... and experience thats particular to tak. not only rts concepts... thats unavoidable here

repeating, im not saying they aren't good and they cant dominate. im saying they dont dominate and never dominated. to dominate tak u dont have to be korean. of course if u have good rts background u can dominate faster, but it still takes time starting from 0. not 6 months, u can be top in this time tho. but cant be the best
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