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 What does everyone think of an updated patch?

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$_ARTHAN

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PostSubject: Re: What does everyone think of an updated patch?   Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:58 am

Ok, everyone here mentioned their views about TAK, so let me write my noob-like view of it too, Razz !

1st) Rome Total War is a mix of strategy genres while TAK is pure RTS. I don't think we should compare them. And TAK is already much more realistic than many RTSes, though its fantasy setting makes you think quite the opposite. The reason TAK (and TA) is realistic is the following:
* Archers fire their arrows at a straight line, they not throw them to the air and waiting to fall down, like most of the rest RTSes. If they find an obstacle, the arrows are blocked, that's what I call realism. And not only arrows, every kind of ranged weapon may be blocked by natural obstacles (cliffs, rocks, trees) or man-made ones (neutral structures, walls).
* There is air traffic, sea traffic and ground traffic in this game, though sea and ground traffics are not very well made (ground and sea units may collide together), but the air traffic is almost perfect.
* Elevation trully matters in this game (different line of sight, different artillery range).
* Some units turn around fast, some turn around slowly. You do not expect a catapult to be as agile as an archer, do you? Same goes with towers; a Watch Tower fires everywhere around it with no problem, however a Stronghold takes a century to turn its cannnon, lmao!

2nd) Walls are definitely NOT weak. Tell me, how many cannonballs a single piece of wall needs to fall apart? MANY, MUCH MORE THAN MOST PEOPLE IMAGINE, LOL!!! I had BBB_Wqaopl almost defeated by me in a 3 player ffa. I had Creon, Wqaopl had Veruna and Dragonfurax had Taros. Do you know how I almost got them? I walled myself in! It was really hilarious while Wqaopl's Kirenna ran into my walls and she was trying to pass them in order to rush my Sage. I almost could see a cloud writing "WTF?!?!?" above her head, rofl. Things became much more interesting when my COMPLETELY USELESS Bomb Sprinklers, which I had made for defense, started to bomb Kirenna and made Wqaopl to retreat as fast as possible. Behind my safety, I started to build Mana Amplifiers and a pack of Neo Dragons and my Aerial Juggernaut too! However, I lost in the end because I foolishly helped Wqaopl to take out DragonFurax's Tarosian army and his sacred stones fell into Veruna's hands. After that, I lost my Juggernaut with a rediculous way and Wqaopl used his extra mana to destroy my Neo Dragon fleet by using a combination of COMPLETELY USELESS Centaurs and Amazon Knights! However, the greatest highlight of the game was when Verunan Catapults, made by Wqaopl in order to breach my walls, were bombed to death by my Bomb Sprinklers, same goes with Centaurs and Amazons wandering near my walls. But even walls couldn't withstand a massive army attacking shippingly to them, but they withstood such a tremendous amount of damage before collapsing! GG!!!

3rd) Creon and/or Aramon are NOT broken, it all depends on map and how well you know to play with a specific race. When we play in small plain 3rd party maps, of course Aramon will rule there, they are the EARTH-based race of the game; poor navy, non-existent aerial army, excellent ground forces! In many DC/CD maps, Aramon is a poor choice. When you deal with such an easy-to-use Cartographer which has allowed a million maps of great variety to be created, then you can't expect every race to have the same chance everywhere (except for a perfecct map which has yet to be created, lol).

4th) Gates were never meant to be built in the middle of the map. Yes, Gates are broken, since Cavedog never had a serious play-testing with them, that's why they are so glitchy/broken (too cheap, too strong, great LineOfSight, friendly missile weapons fly through them, if they are open they are indestructible, they are only up-down and not left-right except Creon gate etc.). Because of the above, I think Gates need a serious fixing and it would be good to allow only one in existence (like dragons, deities etc.) and if we fail to fix them we should ban them completely.

Well, that's all, for now... Cool
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PostSubject: Re: What does everyone think of an updated patch?   Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:51 pm

Yea walls aren't weak. But if you make it a unit instead of a feature (giving it LoS and etc), then what about the population limit?

1 gate per player doesn't make sense. And don't you think that banning gates from the game will make rush more effective? People constantly complain about rush...

I can't see a easy solution. To encourage people build walls instead of gates, maybe slightly increase gates' price, slightly decrease it's HP,LOS,etc. Don't wanna change too much (considering it would be implemented in a patch to be used as the latest update for online games) since people play TAK online because they like what they experienced offline or in the past multiplayer communities (from 1.0 to 3.1BB)

Newbies already give up on online games (Crusades Balance) when their waves don't kill the other monarchs lol. It's wiser to apply drastic changes only in mods or featured maps (idk how to), like maps banning trebs and/or gates.
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PostSubject: Re: What does everyone think of an updated patch?   Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:02 pm

Game Over wrote:
Yea walls aren't weak. But if you make it a unit instead of a feature (giving it LoS and etc), then what about the population limit?

I agree here, we do not need to change walls at all.


1 gate per player doesn't make sense. And don't you think that banning gates from the game will make rush more effective? People constantly complain about rush...

Neither 1 holy dragon or 1 Aerial Juggernaut per player makes sense, but this rule exists in order to keep TA:Kingdoms balanced. According to TAK story and Book of Darien & Iron Plague missions, there were multiple Gold Dragons and Aerial Juggernauts at a time. During the cinematics, the High Priest of Anu talks about MANY Gold Dragons and NOT just for a single one. The Aerial Juggernaut also appears into more than one IP mission, despite the fact you had to destroy it more than once. Same must go with Gates; 1 Gate per player is more than enough and people can very effectively avoid rushes by walling themselves with a clever way.


I can't see a easy solution. To encourage people build walls instead of gates, maybe slightly increase gates' price, slightly decrease it's HP,LOS,etc. Don't wanna change too much (considering it would be implemented in a patch to be used as the latest update for online games) since people play TAK online because they like what they experienced offline or in the past multiplayer communities (from 1.0 to 3.1BB)

About the offline experience thing, I doubt there is a single Play The Machine TAK player who builds gates in the middle of the map for protection, so players who start playing online don't give a ssssshit about Gates and they will use them as soon as they see everyone else to use them online. However, even past online players complained about Gates and/or Trebs, even the ones who hadn't left TAK with the first opportunity.


Newbies already give up on online games (Crusades Balance) when their waves don't kill the other monarchs lol. It's wiser to apply drastic changes only in mods or featured maps (idk how to), like maps banning trebs and/or gates.

That's a very good idea! You can do this by making multiplayer scripted missions, I have created a few and tested them with Gman (Gman is my big brother) and you can create wonders with them! You can even create co-operative missions versus the AI in which you can give the AI much more beginning structures and mana while you give yourself very little. The porblem is TAK Multiplayer Missions had never became famous enough, despite they are trully awesome! The only problem is you need a human player to test it with him...
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PostSubject: Re: What does everyone think of an updated patch?   Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:54 pm

I wouldn't use a patch that enables only 1 gate or totally bans it, because that's too drastic as I said. Offline players don't use gate as much as online players do, but they still know it's there and have used it sometimes. Some of the past online players have complained that gates are OP, even so taking them away from the game is changing the gameplay too much. I prefer changing the unit (making it a bit less useful) than prohibiting it.

Then again I wouldn't mind playing specific maps that limit gates (and trebs). Actually it'd be cool to have a map pack with the tags [nogate], [notreb], [nogatetreb] or something like that. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: What does everyone think of an updated patch?   Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:21 pm

Instead of baning/nerfing the gates, I think its a better idea to make them like Creon's gate
Un-auto-targetable

Just add onoffable = 1; to their code
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