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 A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party

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Bardan

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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:03 am

Well the idea here is to kind of sift through those which show promise and those which do not. If they can be folded into the Mod or possibly compiled into elements of New Races, well so be it.

As for the Mods, as soon as you produce Version 3.3 of New Age, I plan to play-test it extensively (one reason I've been doing all this other stuff first, waiting on it) and I will likely have a Thread for that, too - if you don't mind. Equinox as well. But I will continue these Evaluations for personal use, if nothing else. Again, if you don't mind.
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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:48 am

Aramon Sea Drake

Rip from Sea Shadow (that guy that smuggled Lokken's bottle in the first campaign) and has no place in Aramon, in my opinion. He doesn't keep the Cloak, though, so at least that's something.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Like all naval vessels, you have to micro-manage them to get the most out of them.

-Is the unit effective?
He's faster, tougher, hits harder, and has about 1000 more range than the Aramon War Galley. In short, he's broken. But with the magical fire attack (not really Aramon's style), he gets 1.6x modifier against other ships. So yeah, I'd say this guy is effective. Broken, but effective.

-Is the unit flexible?
Not really. He's a naval unit, so he's restricted to water. And he can't transport. So really, he's just a brawling ship smasher.

-Is the unit practical?
Meh, if it were more balanced, maybe. As it is, there's no point in building the Cavedog unit (which I find a High Crime of Treason, more often than not) War Galley because the Sea Drake outstrips it in every way. And all that for just a few cents more.

-Is the unit creative?
Not really. I mean, I think its neat that someone noticed "Hey, fireball = Drake name = ship destroyer," but as for being original with the unit...? Meh.

"There must be a beginning of any great matter, but the continuing unto the end until it be thoroughly finished yields the true glory." - Sir Francis Drake
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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:03 am

Aramon Flying Nun

Quote :

buildtime = 50;
canfly = 1;

What's missing there? Oh, right! "canattack = 1;" Yeah... this thing can't attack. So what's wrong with that? The Spyhawk doesn't attack, but then it has a velocity of 5 and 20 hitpoints. The Nun has 2 velocity and 200 hitpoints. The Spyhawk stays alive because of its SPEED. The Nun, lacking such speed, is easy prey with next to zero hitpoints. For perspective, a Zombie has 1100 hitpoints, and a Swordsman has 2500. 200 for the Nun may as well be 20 like the Spyhawk.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
If it could attack, it could be a little more complex than it is... but no.

-Is the unit effective?
If it could attack, its supposed to have mind-control... but no.

-Is the unit flexible?
It if could attack, it could be assault support, defense support, or even follow Elsin around on his solo forays... but no.

-Is the unit practical?
If it could attack... but no.

-Is the unit creative?
I'm thinking... no.


NO! Just No!


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:09 am

Aramon Grapeshot Cannon

Because this uses the Flame Cannon as a base, it requires the Flame Cannon 3do to actually be in your TAK folder. For some reason, it either isn't named properly or included, so it won't load. I'm thinking it's the stone corpse model...

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Rather simple - load it up and go.

-Is the unit effective?
Only on clustered troops. Its 1000 more mana for double the areaofeffect at a shorter range than the Cannon. And for a huge drop in default damage... but I'm not sure how the "duration = 1.5;" plays into it.

-Is the unit flexible?
Not really, it's too slow and too short range for an assault, but works well enough on defense - again, mostly against clustered wave assaults. But I think I'd prefer longer-range for security, personally.

-Is the unit practical?
Meh... arguable. Depends on what kind of attacks the enemy is throwing at you, I would think. Potentially a good unit for defense, but I don't know.

-Is the unit creative?
Not really - again, it uses the FLame Cannon as a base, and just reduces/changes some things. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of shrapnel of all kinds flying into the enemy...

"A whiff of Grapeshot"


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:11 am

Aramon Angel

This is perhaps the one Aramon magical flying critter I can accept, and then only because Cavedog saw fit to give Taros the Fallen Angel.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Rather simpler than its counterpart the Fallen Angel, but still a flying ranged combat unit so not exactly simple.

-Is the unit effective?
Meh... it costs about the same as a Zhon Drake, does less damage and has 1000 less HP. Perhaps with some balancing it could serve...

-Is the unit flexible?
As flexible as most other combat fliers, but rather more fragile than most. Have to be careful with him.

-Is the unit practical?
For most other Aramon fliers, I'd say certainly not. This guy is not nearly so good as other fliers, but perhaps that's good and in-keeping with Aramon's disdain for air power. Maybe...

-Is the unit creative?
I rathe rlike the idea of an Angel which hasn't "Fallen," but what exactly does that mean? Perhaps the "Angel of Anu" could be beefed up just a bit more...

I've always wanted a sort of "Angel of Mons" story in TA:K, now I get my chance...


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:11 am

Aramon Maceman

X - Ara - - Ara - - - Ver
X - Mace - Sword - Warrior
$ - 210 - - 285 - - - 265
M - 2.1 - - 1.1 - - - 1.3
HP - 2k - - 2.5k - - 2.6k
D - 200 - - 360 - - - 380
Re - 1.2 - - 1.7 - - - 1.8

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Very simple combat soldier.

-Is the unit effective?
Weaker than the Swordsman in all respects, this guy is faster on foot and attacks faster. That might make up for it; your call.

-Is the unit flexible?
Fast attack is really all this guy is good at, methinks. I just build a couple of Barracks and set them to Patrol and then +++ Macemen. They're cannon fodder, sure, but enough to keep them off balance since they can be produced so quickly.

-Is the unit practical?
Nah, I mean they have some advantages over the Swordsman, but some disadvantages too. I don't know, though, maybe its because I remember the Macemen from Lords of the Realm II (on which this unit is based, I think, considering the soundbytes) and just love this guy. Not sure, but this ones a keeper, even if its just for diversity.

-Is the unit creative?
About the same as the Pikeman; seems more an attempt to diversify the assault teams... but I dunno. Might serve well as Line Infantry in another Race, however.

"Ready, My Lord!" -Maceman, Lords of the Realm II


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:11 am

Aramon Dragon Slayer

Another Slayer-type, and another Anti-Dragon-type, but this one falls short as an Any-type.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Ranged Cavalry have some promise of advanced tactics on land, but this one lacks those major strengths.

-Is the unit effective?
It was designed to be, what with a 1.4 modifier on all flying units, and a 2.5 modifier on Dragons... but no. He's not incredibly fast, he's very expensive - despite his specified job - and I think its his 3do model... but he has trouble being hit. Very annoying, that.

-Is the unit flexible?
Again, Ranged Cavalry can be, but this guy just sucks, in my opinion, and I can't place my finger on it. Maybe if I'd used him against Zhon and he was at the forefront of some nasty aerial waves...

-Is the unit practical?
Not really, for his price you could have a TON of other ranged guys who could taken down fliers more easily.

-Is the unit creative?
Meh.

And I think I was around in Knights of Magic when this guy was made... I wasnt to say it was a guy named Psycko. Oh well.


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:06 pm

I don't mind, you are welcome to post anything about tak in these threads.

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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:11 pm

I agree with you that aramon shouldn't have any flying units other than the angel. The airship should be given to veruna as an upgraded dirigible

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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:31 pm

i never take the cost of a unit into acount only the mana per second that it uses and the time it takes to billd. the reson is becos TAK uses infinet resorses so the cost of a unit is slitly pointles in my opineon.

also it might be easyer to combine the reload with the damige so it can be direcly compard with hp.

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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:18 pm

Wqaopl wrote:
i never take the cost of a unit into acount only the mana per second that it uses and the time it takes to billd. the reson is becos TAK uses infinet resorses so the cost of a unit is slitly pointles in my opineon.

also it might be easyer to combine the reload with the damige so it can be direcly compard with hp.

I thought about both considerations, but I'm just too lazy to crunch numbers.
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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:31 pm

Aramon Handcannoneer

Even the infantry are embracing gunpowder in Aramon...

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Pretty simple, point and shoot.

-Is the unit effective?
Yeah, his 750-damage a shot can do some damage, but...

-Is the unit flexible?
Hmm, Line defense or assault support. Your choice.

-Is the unit practical?
He's more expensive, slower, has a shorter range than the Mage Archer, and he has a StTUPID high reload time... (nearly 4x that of the MA)

-Is the unit creative?
No; he'd be better off being a Blunderbussman with a scattergun than the bazooka-looking shoulder cannon he has. At least then, his bad range could be more useful and affect more people. Plus with that, he'd be expected to have some additional armor...

I think I made a potato gun that looked like his weapon before...
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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:33 pm

Aramon Onager

I was always kind of baffled by the Azurian's ability to waste their neighbors, but I realized it was because of their Tier 1 Siege unit - the Pandora's Box (I think it's called, haven't played them in a decade). The Pandora's Box shot straight on, not like the Catapult, but like a cannon (though I think it could also shoot flying units...). This Onager follows in those footsteps.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Rather complex for a tier 1 siege unit.

-Is the unit effective?
Oh definitely, it has a faster rate of fire than a catapult and, despite lower damage, can hit targets directly - including ripping through infantry. And well all know how difficult it is for a Catapult to hit infantry. One of these guys, a Cannon, a Rolling Tower, and a Flame Cannon held a pass against one of my Massive Tier 1 Assaults MUCH longer than I thought they might. I had to pull my other Assault Group from the north to finally overwhelm them. Four - 4 - units killed probably 40 of my guys.

-Is the unit flexible?
Yes - Assault Support, Defense, Siege... good stuff. Hell, Mobile Defense while you set up some early forward bases.

-Is the unit practical?
Hell, I think that Aramon would do well to scrap the Catapult altogether - leave it to those Verunans! - and beef up the Onager a bit.

-Is the unit creative?
Meh... its a Tier 1 Cannon without the Cannon bit, really. But the care and consideration put into it - 3do and balancing - make it very nice indeed.

I do find it rather odd, actually, that the Verunans get Catapults like Aramon, they don't get Cannons, but they get Ballistas, and on top of that they get Mortars. I like that this thing - marginally - restores the balance.


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:33 pm

Aramon Relic

I'm never sure how to judge Healing units...

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Static Triage Defense - STD!

-Is the unit effective?
Not sure... it heals stuff. AdjustJoy 66 in 320 radius. If you have any idea what that means, do tell!

-Is the unit flexible?
Well, due to its relatively low cost, it can be built by a Mage Builder on the spot in an Assault for First Aid, or it can be built behind your Front Line Defenses, or... something.

-Is the unit practical?
Healing is always helpful. Zhon has the Sacred Fire, Veruna has the Pillar of Light, Poor Taros is left out... but see, Aramon already has the Acolyte's radius. So is this absolutely needed?

-Is the unit creative?
Not really, though it does have a nice Aramon-ish spin to it, I guess.


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:33 pm

Aramon Imperial Guard

I actually really like the idea of Elsin being able to make these guys right off the bat, as well as them being produceable at the Keep. I'm not sure why, but its neat somehow.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Simple Melee.

-Is the unit effective?
855 damage 2x vs Tier 1 - when Elsin can make them? I think so! With 6k HP, these guys can also survive Monarch Waves. That's not too shabby...

-Is the unit flexible?
His Durability and potential early production makes him more flexible than other melee units, particularly other early ones.

-Is the unit practical?
He's certainly not requisite, no, but he is fun. A pack of these guys and some Titans can do some damage, that IS for certain.

-Is the unit creative?
Actually, yeah... I think so. And again, I think it has something to do with being buildable by Elsin.

Is Aramon and Empire? Hadn't really thought about that before...


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:34 pm

Aramon Drunken Sailor

Though a Sailor is more likely to sign on with Veruna, I LOL'd. And LOL'd again.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Theoretically 3 attacks makes this shambling fool kind of interesting to use...

-Is the unit effective?
Attack 1: Have a Drink - Paralyzer (10 Range, 400 Damage) <- does the damage on a paralysis attack count for duration? I couldn't get straight damage to work here...
Attack 2: Intoxicate - Paralyzer (150 Range, 500 Damage) <- pointless since it is only slightly better than the first and costs mana
Attack 3: Por um a stiff one - Area Mind Control (Range 130, Area 130)

This last attack is the LOLs for Aramon, as its a good way to snatch an enemy builder without putting Elsin in harm's way for a corpse (or for Zhon's people who have no corpses for the most part). However, I still think Veruna deserves a Mind-Controller and reworked this guy would do swell!

-Is the unit flexible?
Not really. Short-range stun and mind control means these guys are only suitable for assault support.

-Is the unit practical?
For the Mind Control only, sure. Though I think I might give them swimming, too, because what sailor can't swim? Oh right... the drunk ones.

-Is the unit creative?
Highly! I was very skeptical at first because it's just an NPC-character rip, but the attacks really give it character!

Hmm... now I'd like a beer...


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:34 pm

Aramon Scout

I guess we have a few pacifists amongst the Horsemen...

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Very simple - he doesn't attack. He has a flag, a good line of sight, and a horse. Enjoy.

-Is the unit effective?
Effective in terms of... Scouting? Well yeah, but check this:
Spyhawk - Flies, costs 266, velocity 5, radar 500, sight 225, HP 20
Scout - Runs/Rides, costs 2.5k, velocity 3.4, NO radar, sight 350, HP 5k

So... for the buck, I'd rather go for the Spyhawk. A flock of them. Though the sheer durability of the Scout makes me wonder.

-Is the unit flexible?
Nope. Just a guy with some good eyes.

-Is the unit practical?
No. Just train some Hawks. Really. But then, having one in an assault may not be TERRIBLE... maybe. Doesn't strike me as a good enough reason to have a whole new unit, though. It could possibly serve as a substitute for a Scout-type unit for a new race...

-Is the unit creative?
Yes and no... oddly enough. Its an interesting contradiction - in my head, anyway.

"Hey, did you see something?"


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:34 pm

Aramon Siege Trebuchet

Um... by definition, isn't a Trebuchet a siege engine? Just curious...

-Is the unit simple or complex?
The only thing more complex than this guy is trying to find a place and situation where you'd actually need one and be able to build him.

-Is the unit effective?
No. It doesn't have the range needed to be effective, with a range fo 800, he's a defensive structure - NOT an offensive besieging weapon.

-Is the unit flexible?
Not in the least.

-Is the unit practical?
Not a bit.

-Is the unit creative?
The very antithesis of creativity, I should think...

I'm sorry, but this thing just baffles me. I remember having a Rolling Trebuchet a long time ago. That's the idea - to improve, not to handicap.
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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:36 pm

Bardan wrote:
Aramon Flying Nun

Quote :

buildtime = 50;
canfly = 1;

What's missing there? Oh, right! "canattack = 1;" Yeah... this thing can't attack. So what's wrong with that? The Spyhawk doesn't attack, but then it has a velocity of 5 and 20 hitpoints. The Nun has 2 velocity and 200 hitpoints. The Spyhawk stays alive because of its SPEED. The Nun, lacking such speed, is easy prey with next to zero hitpoints. For perspective, a Zombie has 1100 hitpoints, and a Swordsman has 2500. 200 for the Nun may as well be 20 like the Spyhawk.
....
NO! Just No!


The Aramon flying nun was a 3rd party joke...
Every month or so a new 3rd party unit was released... by a 3rd party community
The community began to demand new units...
One day, when a new unit was supposed to be released, it wasnt, and the community became outraged.
They started threads, and demanding "NEW UNIT NOW"
So before the day was over, the 3rd party site rushed out the Aramon Flying Nun....
NUN=New Unit Now

I'm not surprised you didnt know this
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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:42 pm

Bl4ckR4v3N wrote:



The Aramon flying nun was a 3rd party joke...
Every month or so a new 3rd party unit was released... by a 3rd party community
The community began to demand new units...
One day, when a new unit was supposed to be released, it wasnt, and the community became outraged.
They started threads, and demanding "NEW UNIT NOW"
So before the day was over, the 3rd party site rushed out the Aramon Flying Nun....
NUN=New Unit Now

I'm not surprised you didnt know this

That's bloody hilarious! It was already on the market when I came around (sometime mid-late 2000), so I missed the hey-day of the TAK community. I had assumed it was either some kind of joke or someone's first attempt. Thanks for the info, though.
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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:35 am

Aramon Metal Beast

This critter, poorly crafted that it is, should number amongst Creon's ranks instead of Aramon's, but I'm wondering if he was made before the Iron Plague expansion.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Melee Saw/Axe, Firebreath attack, and a medium-long range Cannon... versatile and super tough at 23,700 HP.

-Is the unit effective?
Potentially a real battle-turner, but my only experiment with him apparently found the 'backdoor' to the enemy base and he was toe-to-toe with the monarch before I knew it. Kirenna had a small cohort with her, and yet the Metal Beast still managed to take her down to 50% health before going down.

-Is the unit flexible?
With its durability and various attacks, yes. He can down down a flank temporarily against a small horde or lead an assault. Alone, it could be easy prey to massed air-attacks, though.

-Is the unit practical?
For the price... debatable. He isn't necessary, that's for certain.

-Is the unit creative?
Yes, actually. I mean, I don't know of any other creation with a cockpit. Kind of neat, methinks.

What constitutes a 'beast' anyway?


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:27 am

Aramon Mystic Warrior

These guys may not seem too 'mystic' at first glace, but they have a few surprises.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
A little more complex than you'd think...

-Is the unit effective?
Nearly 6k HP, reasonable speed, 700 damage medium-range lightning attack, and a 600+ melee attack with a 1.78 reload... yeah, he's effective enough.

-Is the unit flexible?
Did I mention they could run on water?

-Is the unit practical?
Aramon has a faster Knight and a more effective ranged Mage Archer. This fella is not needed. Plus, being 3rd Tier means he's showing up late for the party on smaller maps. For his abilities, he ought to be 2nd Tier.

-Is the unit creative?
Yeah, I think so. I was wondering what was so mystic about him other than his lightning attack, but then saw the water-running thing and was intrigued. Not super original, but a nice twist.

What else is he hiding...?


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:28 am

Aramon Sylvan Knight

If I remember correctly, Sylvans are knights of the forest and somewhat related to fey and faerie-folk... thus magic, though of a more benign/defensive sort of magic. Again, I'm a little unsettled with magic-users filling out Aramon's ranks, but since he isn't a pure magic-type, that's fine. After all, they have the Mage Archer, right?

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Melee and Magic-Ranged means more complex than your usual Knight.

-Is the unit effective?
Eh... Damage of the melee attack is 1250 (to the Knight's 750), and the Magic attack does 760 with a range of 400 (just under an archer's range) but he has only enough magic for 2 attacks before needing to let mana recharge. He is about 1700 weaker than the Knight as far as HP goes. SO - the Sylvan is weaker, only marginally slower, but more damaging than the Knight.

-Is the unit flexible?
With a magic attack, this guy can take on aerial units where the Knight can't, though... with only 2 shots max. He's about as fast as the Knight (only .2 slower), so he can serve as a skirmisher or a storm-trooper.

-Is the unit practical?
No; sure he's got an edge on the Knight but he costs over 3x as much AND has a buildtime of over 2000 to the Knight's 185 buildtime. So... yeah.

-Is the unit creative?
I want to say 'NO!' but it shoes some thinking outside the box. So marginally creative, I suppose.

I don't know, might as well have a Druid as soon as a Sylvan Knight...


Last edited by Bardan on Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:29 am

Aramon Snake Warrior

Just one question: What are the beastmen doing fighting against Zhon?

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Simple melee.

-Is the unit effective?
Fair, I suppose. Comparably costs 300-ish more mana than a Barbarian, 1000 more HP, .45 greater velocity, 40 less damage per strike, .45 faster reload, and 260 smaller range. So about as effective as a Barbarian.

-Is the unit flexible?
Not really - straight melee.

-Is the unit practical?
Nope; with so little difference over the Barbarians, you might as well go with the cheaper option. Though if this guy was a memeber of Zhon's ranks - as I feel any beast-type critter should be - it really ought to be much faster. I mean... its a snake.

-Is the unit creative?
Meh... kind of. Maybe. New beastie twist on a Mermaid-looking creature.

Sssomething here doesss not make sssenssse...


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PostSubject: Re: A Closer Look: Aramon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:29 am

Aramon Stone Golem

Who gave the mountain a sword?

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Melee with a radius attack bonus.

-Is the unit effective?
LOTS of hitpoints. 10000 HP and 1000 damage per attack means this guy is serious. If you send an assault wave on the heels of a group of these guys, you're going to tear a hole through the enemy. Not too shabby for just shy of 4000 mana.

-Is the unit flexible?
Due to his speed, he's really only useful for maybe some minor defensive shoring up or leading a charge.

-Is the unit practical?
It's greatest advantage, really, is its ability to cut down on the numbers needed. Think - if you have a 200 unit limit, you don't want to field 50 Barbarians when you could field 10 of these guys. But then when you can have a 5k unit limit, big deal, right?

-Is the unit creative?
It's a Stone Giant with a sword. Not really, but pretty much.

He's rock hard, he is!


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