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 Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party

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Bardan

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PostSubject: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:26 pm

For my second installment, I am going to tinker with the Cavedog race which I have spent the least amount of time with - by a rather large margin. Indeed, I think I've played with/against some 3rd party races more than I have these Scientist-Warriors. Hopefully I'll learn a thing or two - and once again I invite others to educate me on things I may have missed.

Disclaimer: Here I will be taking a look at 3rd party creations for the Creon race and giving my impression, both personal and objective, of said creations. I will try to make it rather fun, informative, and light-hearted. Any criticism is welcome, but these views are my own, for good or ill.

I hope in this way to determine which of the plethora of 3rd party units are really worth keeping around in the long term. Again, these are just personal opinions and - since I don't know who made any of them, or if those people are still around - it is nothing at all personal towards those developers. Now... let's get started!
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:51 am

Creon Attack Drone

A mechanical spider critter, this guy is severely unbalanced. Another one of the products of Knights of Magic, if memory serves. More ambition than sense, methinks.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Cloaking makes all units highly complex, so just like an assassin, you need to micro-manage these guys. However, since they're broken, they are easier to manage than - say - an Assassin.

-Is the unit effective?
Retardedly so - just under 1000 range and over 1000 damage per shot... and for less than 1000 mana. Probably a poor Fire Spout rip...

-Is the unit flexible?
Sure, given the range, it could be used as defense or assault support, and with the Cloaking, these guys can be "****" scary and problematic to one's enemies if used properly. I had just 3 of them keep a corner of the map - if not under my control - at least free of theirs.

-Is the unit practical?
Yes and no - Creon already has such a nasty advantage on ranged troops, this guy seems overkill. I have no problem with him being stealthy (I think Creon needs a stealthy unit), but their incredible range and damage is just too much and unnecessary.

-Is the unit creative?
Were it given a more specific task than just stealth-ranged, then yes I'd say it was very creative.

Reminds me of an this thing.


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:51 am

Creon Amphibian

Tortoise = Tier 1 Tank
Amphibian = Tier 2 Aquatic Tank
Though to be fair, I would have preferred a proper noun for the name...

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Amphibious Tank... take with that what you will.

-Is the unit effective?
Do you need to cross a lake/ocean/river? Is it under fire, defended, or fortified? Need some critters to open up a beachhead? Then these guys (with naval support if available) are excellent for your needs!

-Is the unit flexible?
Slightly weaker than a Beast Rider, but with a more damaging attack - albeit at shorter range - means this guy can fill a very similar role to the Beast Rider.

-Is the unit practical?
This one's versatility comes in with naval actions, only.

-Is the unit creative?
Yeah... though I think just about every 3rd party Creon tank can traverse water...

Is that rust?!


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:52 am

Creon Mobile Crossbow

Oh look, another mechanical armored mobile ranged unit for Creon...

-Is the unit simple or complex?
On the complex end of simple, or the simple end of complex. Same basic status as Amazon knight.

-Is the unit effective?
Same speed, more expensive, and tougher than the Fire Wagon, with a slightly better range. All in all, I think its pretty well balanced for the cost and advantages it has over the Fire Wagon.

-Is the unit flexible?
Oh sure, home defense or assault support. Good potential all around.

-Is the unit practical?
Meh, a big-boy version of the Fire Wagon, essentially. Nothing Creon can't live without.

-Is the unit creative?
Yes, I think it was pretty genius to make a mobile assault version of a defensive structure. Same as the Hedgehog is with the Bomb Sprinkler, really.

"Hey, where're you going?!"


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:52 am

Creon Observer

Early hot-air balloon observers used various flag signals to convey what they were seeing... I wonder if these guys (theoretically) use the same method...?

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Super Simple - built it and forget it.

-Is the unit effective?
VERY! It effectively negates the need for Barnstormers when defending, opening up population-slots and keeping organization more simplified.

-Is the unit flexible?
Not a bit, once built, this guy isn't going anywhere or doing anything except watching those horizons.

-Is the unit practical?
While a Barnstormer COULD do this guy's job, I would much rather have this one. And with the durability rather akin to a Zombie, he can at least take a couple of hits, unlike a Barnstormer, though he can't move.

-Is the unit creative?
Hell yes! Being a student of military history, I'm baffled I hadn't thought of it myself. I blame it on being 14 the last time I was around, but either way this is one creation you DON'T want to miss!

If this guy had a camera, he could make a fortune off combat postcards!


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:53 am

Creon Cannon Tower

The Creon Stronghold.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Static Defense = Simplicity. Most complex bit of this guy is where to place him for greatest impact. As with any other defensive structure, you want high ground and/or chokepoint. If there is neither, then a redoubt.

-Is the unit effective?
700-ish range, 1100-ish damage, 19000-ish HP... yeah, I'd say so.

-Is the unit flexible?
Nope.

-Is the unit practical?
Its far more durable than the Prismatic Mirror, but has a shorter range, and does only slightly more damage. I think that if this was combined in a suitable defense line just in front of the Prismatic Mirror, it would be overkill to the extreme.

-Is the unit creative?
For Creon? Nah... I'd sooner expect to see an Electric Tower which does a ranged wave attack than a generic gunpowder cannon tower...

I want my mana back!


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:53 am

Creon Condor

Lasers... really?

-Is the unit simple or complex?
It can fly, it can shoot, it can transport troops. Pretty complex, especially since its rather slow and weak. You'd need to keep a close eye on it.

-Is the unit effective?
Depends on the task at hand. Transport behind your lines? Pretty effective, I suppose. Assault? No. Defense? No.

-Is the unit flexible?
Though it has multiple faculties, it's really one good for transporting units while under heavy escort. At least, that's really all I could get out of it.

-Is the unit practical?
Nah. The transport is all it has over the Neo-Dragon, and that thing is just so nasty you can do without the transport and march the unit(s) in question over the intervening area while the NeoDragon lays the place to waste-like.

-Is the unit creative?
Pathetic rip from the Veruna Stinger. It just strikes me as pathetic amidst Creon's ranks.

Condor... what a name.


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:58 am

Creon Clockwork Beast

Unlike the following Mutant, this one shows at some creativity...

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Pretty standard melee - lots of HP, decent damage.

-Is the unit effective?
8K+ HP is serious business. This guy can take plenty of hits, and with 400 damage per attack, he can deal some too.

-Is the unit flexible?
With 8k HP, this fella would do well to lead the charge or a mixed force into the teeth of the enemy's guns. He may not last long, but he'll last longer than other units and give those following him more of a chance to do their jobs.

-Is the unit practical?
Creon lacks any true Tier 2 melee worth its salt, so there's a spot for this guy.

-Is the unit creative?
A metal patchwork Shaman rip? I like it! It looks rather clumsy and amateurish in action, but I think that holds true with rudimentary clockwork machines. Neat overall, methinks.

If the internal watch gets off track, does it affect this guy's movements?


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:59 am

Creon Buzz

Hmm... Creon Chainsaw Massacre?

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Simple Melee.

-Is the unit effective?
Costs 1100+, has only a few dozen hitpoints more than an Aramon Swordsman, and hits about as hard as an Automaton... but reload rate is .5! AND he gets a 1.3 modifier to humans and a .9 modifier to Monarchs (which I think may just be the highest Monarch modifier I've yet seen). This guy can chew through some enemies, that's for sure. I wonder, however, why the chainsaw doesn't lend to cutting through wooden structures?

-Is the unit flexible?
Not really - he seems to be made for one thing only - Assault!

-Is the unit practical?
I've always felt Creon was more powerful all 'round than the other Cavedog races, so do they need help in this field? Well, having seen some Aramon Knights flying through densely packed Tortoise and Shock Trooper ranks... I think its safe to say they need a decent melee unit for Tier 2.

-Is the unit creative?
Hell yeah! What other critter in TA:K has a chainsaw? Answer: The Sage wanted one, but it wasn't in the budget.

I miss TABDD...


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:59 am

Creon Mutant

Sometimes I just want to punch people.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Melee unit - simple.

-Is the unit effective?
Fairly quick at 2.3 Velocity, 6K+ HP, 460 damage ever 1.2 reload with a bonus to lower tier. Very effective, and all for only a little over 2,000 mana.

-Is the unit flexible?
Due to its speed and rapid attack, this guy can hunt down enemy units, and since it has some respectable HP, he can stand up for assault teams.

-Is the unit practical?
For Creon? Hell, I'll take most opportunities for additional melee units, but this one just lacks any imagination. However, Creon has nothing of the kind capable of holding a candle to this one.

-Is the unit creative?
Not in the least. Frustratingly so...

Mutants along the lines of Mutant Chronicles would have been better suited than this charade.


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:59 am

Creon Replica Drake

For a Replica, this guy has more bang for his buck, methinks, than the real deal.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Aerial Combat Flier = pretty complex, but no Monarch.

-Is the unit effective?
Yes. Inflicts slightly less damage (only 20) per shot, reloads 1/2 point faster, 100 shorter range, .4 less velocity, 286 less Hitpoints - than the Zhon Drake. Now, for all those relatively minor reductions, it costs just 900 mana less. I THINK pound for pound, mana for mana, this Creon can get more out of the Replica than Zhon can out of the Drake.

-Is the unit flexible?
Indeed - put a small flock of these guys with a couple of Neo Dragons and you can shut down offensive groups heading your way. Or create a massive airforce and go nuts - but yeah, these guys are well worth it.

-Is the unit practical?
Creon has two combat air units including the Dragon-Analogue Aerial Juggernaught... Only Aramon can boast less (only the Gold Dragon), though Veruna's Dirigible is lackluster in a dogfight, to be sure. But I digress. Creon has the Heavy Aerial Jug, the 'Meadium' Neo-Dragon, and I feel the Replica could serve as a pretty good 'Light-ish' fighter. Though with the versatility of the Neo-Dragon, I wonder...

-Is the unit creative?
I think the concept of adapting Mythological critters to Creonite Technology is Ace! Very impressive.

I know its the 3do that's modified, but after watching all three Jurassic Park films in a row, I just think it'd be neat to see something like this in reality.


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:00 am

Creon Dragon Engine

I had an idea for a javilneer once.... then realized the Zhon Hunter is exactly that.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
As simple as a Fire Wagon...

-Is the unit effective?
Slightly better than the Fire Wagon on Damage, Range, Speed, and Reload speed, lots better on HP, and double the expense. Otherwise the same as, methinks.

-Is the unit flexible?
The defenses are sound, this thing is effective only as mobile defense or assault support.

-Is the unit practical?
Arguable; its durability means that buying more Fire Wagons may not be as effective, especially concerning the danger of explosion.

-Is the unit creative?
Actually, yeah. What other artificial creation is running around?

I wonder if it runs like an automobile engine... I mean, do you need a key? A sparkplug? What about oil? Odd, that.


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:00 am

Creon Locomotif

If the Tortoise is a "Light Tank," then this bad boy is the "Heavy Tank," but I wonder...
- - Tort - - Loco
$ - 780 - - 3680 (x4.7)
HP - 3.2k - - 5k (x1.5)
Sp - 1.25 - - 1.1 (x.88)
Ra - 805 - - 400 (x.49)
Re - 4.0 - - 3.0 (x.75)
Da - 432 - - 420 (x.97)

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Simple enough. Know how to use a Tortoise? Then you have the gist.

-Is the unit effective?
Yes and no - for the price, I think I'd rather have more Tortoises, but it is a bit more durable.

-Is the unit flexible?
Due to the shortness of its range, it would certainly be better off as part of a major assault. Indeed, backed up by some of the other units of the "Chemistry" Pack, it can do some hefty damage...

-Is the unit practical?
...But that damage could probably be attained by Cavedog units just as easily.

-Is the unit creative?
Oh, I think it's bloody brilliant. It needs some fine-tuning, to be sure, but its got lots of promise. For example, giving it a load/unload capacity would be a first step to making it unique. Or maybe giving it a weak secondary weapon which can attack air units.

"Tickets, please."
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:43 pm

Creon Hedgehog

Why the name hedgedog? It's not at all spikey...

-Is the unit simple or complex?
A mix between a Catapult and a Tortoise. Just fine.

-Is the unit effective?
That nasty bern getting in your way? Problem Solved! Other than that, however, I'd rather have a Tortoise.

-Is the unit flexible?
Nope - like the Bomb Sprinker, the projectile falls short of the target unit unless there's a massive wave. And in that situation, I'd rather have direct fire. And a Tortoise has 200 damage more per shot.

-Is the unit practical?
Only marginally; Creon lacks an indirect combat unit at Tier 1, so this fills that role. That's about it, though.

-Is the unit creative?
Yes, yes it is. It's the Mobile Mortar in proper Creon Style. Very neat and very very clever 3do.

I'd love it if it moved stupid fast and were called "Sonic" instead...


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:44 pm

Creon Cyborg Knight

Cyborgs might be a little advanced, but meh... whatever, he's badass.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Simple melee.

-Is the unit effective?
Well yeah! 770 damage per hit from a 6.9k HP robot wielding a huge hammer. I mean, sure, I think he probably needs a little bit something extra to set him apart (like maybe 1.2 modifier to structures - it is a hammer after all).

-Is the unit flexible?
Not really, standard warrior.

-Is the unit practical?
I'm always up for a decent Creon melee unit! I like that there's always room for one of these guys.

-Is the unit creative?
If it weren't for the fact he could pass for (and might be ripped from) a Skeleton wielding a big-\"***\" weapon. But for Creon, I like the idea... but I do NOT like the idea that Creon's melee units are all reanimated/robotical/non-human critters. I want to see a Creon citizen in uniform and going toe-to-toe with an Aramon Knight, \"****\" it!

Why not give a soldier some... I don't know, Magi-Tech-Bionic adjustments and send him off. Maybe that's just me...


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:44 pm

Creon Ornithopter

Do the wings even flap? That's the specific definition of an Ornithopter. Plus, I mean... it looks too terribly fragile to be as durable as it is. Just a pet-peeve of mine.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Flying Bomber - Moderately complex.

-Is the unit effective?
360 damage/.55 reload = lots of damage if the bombs drop on target. Might need some minor modification, but good enough.

-Is the unit flexible?
Not really - it's a bomber, pure and simple.

-Is the unit practical?
Arguable. This guy is slow, but can lay down some hefty damage, especially on static fortifications. But that's really the only place it shines.

-Is the unit creative?
I think so, as a concept, but its not quite right as-is. Can't put my finger on it.

I personally think this guy could use the Aegis Tower's mana-ammo/reload thing. Maybe a smaller 3do model (half size), velocity of 3 (instead of 2.1), and enough mana to fund 5 bombs in quick succession, but takes a couple of minutes to recharge full mana.


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:44 pm

Creon Sentinel



-Is the unit simple or complex?


-Is the unit effective?


-Is the unit flexible?


-Is the unit practical?


-Is the unit creative?
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:45 pm

Creon Whacker



-Is the unit simple or complex?


-Is the unit effective?


-Is the unit flexible?


-Is the unit practical?


-Is the unit creative?
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:46 pm

Creon Storm Bringer



-Is the unit simple or complex?


-Is the unit effective?


-Is the unit flexible?


-Is the unit practical?


-Is the unit creative?
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:46 pm

Creon Watch Tower

Come to think of it, Creon's defenses don't really say much of what the human element is. Its only assumed that the Gatling Crossbow and Bomb Sprinkler use humans to aim and flip switches...

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Very simple - static defense. Just keep in mind where you're placing him!

-Is the unit effective?
Weaker than a Swordsman, but adds the fun paralysis to Creon's already diverse defense network. It is balanced in its range and lack of hitpoints, but the fact it does a miniscule 75 damage a shot gives it a slight advantage over the Lighthouse which is strictly paralysis.

-Is the unit flexible?
Not really - slow down the enemy dogs for the killing blow.

-Is the unit practical?
I don't particularly think Creon needs this unit, but its fun. The Prismatic Mirror has the longest line-of-sight damage (other than the Treb), the Bomb Sprinkler is great against hordes, and the Gatling Crossbow is effective as a cheap line of defense.

-Is the unit creative?
I think so, yes. Not as much in concept as in design. Its 3do model fits in well with the sheer, austere Creon functionality. Not bad.

"Go ahead, Punk, make my day."


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:47 pm

Creon Transport Ship

There are actually two...

-Is the unit simple or complex?


-Is the unit effective?


-Is the unit flexible?


-Is the unit practical?


-Is the unit creative?

And the other...

-Is the unit simple or complex?


-Is the unit effective?


-Is the unit flexible?


-Is the unit practical?


-Is the unit creative?


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:47 pm

Creon Steamer



-Is the unit simple or complex?


-Is the unit effective?


-Is the unit flexible?


-Is the unit practical?


-Is the unit creative?
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:48 pm

Creon XTAP

Forcefields = L33T

This was one of Vaerun's test units which has so much stuff in the .fbi that I'm rather lost. Suffice to say he kicks \"***\" and really shouldn't be played as-is too freely.
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:37 am

Creon Aegis Tower

The firing sequence was actually something I had in mind for a sort of Gatling Wagon years ago. I like it, but... well, just read.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
Relatively simple, since its a defensive structure, but might need some balancing and such.

-Is the unit effective?
Yes, particularly against Tier 1 units, BUT its built by the Chief Engineer so by then... meh.

-Is the unit flexible?
Nope, just defensive.

-Is the unit practical?
While I like it and it shows some ingenuity... does Creon REALLY need another defensive structure? I mean they already have the most with three (Crossbow, Sprinkler, and Lens) whereas most others have Two (except Zhon which has just One)... although a few 3rd party units have Three of varying needs. Anywho, point is I don't think Creon needs it.

-Is the unit creative?
Oh very much so, methinks. I just don't know if it belongs with Creon.

Rapid-fire, quick recharge... good stuff!


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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:37 am

Creon Sea Juggernaught

Um... Ouch.

-Is the unit simple or complex?
About as Complex as you can get while being restricted to naval actions.

-Is the unit effective?
Heh, yeah. As many Hitpoints as a defensive structure, with a range of 1500 on its primary weapon punching 2500 damage. And then there's a couple of lesser weapon systems. Yikes! It needs some balancing and fine-tuning, but overall pretty neat concept.

-Is the unit flexible?
With its range, it can be your Flagship in a Trafalgar-esque battle or bombard support for a D-Day assault.

-Is the unit practical?
Again, though Creon has a limited ship choice, they already have some of the most powerful and intimidating ships out there. Do they need another creation to punch more holes in wooden hulls?

-Is the unit creative?
Meh... not really sure. After the Aerial Juggernaught, the theme of Juggernaughts continued with limited success. At least, in my humble opinion. Still, though, I like its flexibility.

Veruna only wishes they had something like this.


Last edited by Bardan on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Microscope: Creon 3rd Party   

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