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 [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons

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$_Spagg

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PostSubject: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:33 pm

Nobody is playing today (yesterday we had 3 4v4s!)
And I have nothing to do so lets compare all 4 dragons. LMAO cheers

Legendary Dragons

Weapon1845795851796
Weapon21245129512741296
Weapon31500315024002025
W3AoE500220230420
Speed7889
Health23999239882375923946
Sight230210180224
Cost/Time28944/875534287/965432114/935529666/8888
Best
Worst
What each thing meansClick to Show:
 

Conclusion: In my opinion the best is the Black Dragon, it has a good equilibrium between Weapon 3 Dmg and AoE. Also it has the best Weapon 2, which can make the difference when fighting another Dragon on 1vs1.
A Lv9-Veteran Gold Dragon however, can be much more effective, just let some Acos curing it, and unleash waves on the enemy, also, the Gold Dragon is the fastest and cheapest to build.
The worst is the Ancient Dragon, perhaps he is so old/ancient that the Shamans forgot how to build it. Worst health, sight, ugly W3Dmg and AoE, also he has more problems to aim the Weapon2 on another dragon. The sea dragon is also.. disappointing... Note - In theory, 10 Weapon2 hits are enough to kill a Dragon.
Btw what Dragon is the best in YOUR opinion?
Arrow Juggernaut is not a Dragon


Monarchs

Weapon1Dmg1250990150012311010
Weapon2Dmg2200*12202201*16551207*
Weapon1AoE010010000
Weapon2AoE1001505060100
Health16000160001580095001500
Speed1.71.51.752.51.6
AbilityRessurectCloakSwimFly-

* - Elsin fires his meteor in a very quick time, that makes a lot of difference
* -Kirenna's bubble has a great range, but has a big delay to fire
* - Sage's mortar bomb has a great range and also can fire them above units

In my opinion Elsin is the best thanks to his fast 2nd weapon and ability, and the worst is Sage, he has an useless 2nd weapon when comparing with the other Mons (monfight), unless the enemy isnt paying atention on his mon, and get bombarded by sage.


Last edited by Spagg on Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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$_ARTHAN

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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:46 am

Well, I had created a similar poll, but about who is your favorite and not who is the best.
See this link:

http://kingdoms.heavenforum.org/t667-what-is-your-favorite-dragon


Personally, I don't think Ancient Dragon is ugly, I think it is actually the most beautiful of all.
The reason the Ancient Dragon is not the best is because he is an ancient dragon, one of many anceint dragon who exists in the depths of Zhon. It is not a "holy" dragon of Tammuz, like the rest of the dragons (Golden, Sea and Black) who are the holy dragons of Anu, Lihr and Belial respectively (I have figured this out by reading a lot of the manuals and TAK side-stories).
Ancient is the best dragon for me, I have wreacked havoc with him unlimited times in AI skirmish games and he is a true badass when he becomes gold. As for online games, no one makes them, since we play pure aggressive rush nowdays, so why should I care for who is the best anyway?
Juggernaut is not dragon in fact, however it is the equivalent of a holy dragon for Creon. The truth is I would preferred to see the Neon Dragon as a more powerful creonite 'holy' dragon which you can create only once rather than a normal unit that can be built unlimited times. I think the Aerial Juggernaut should be weaker and be buildable more than once.
Anyway, nice topic Spagg, like always! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:59 pm

IMP_ARTHAN wrote:
Well, I had created a similar poll, but about who is your favorite and not who is the best.
See this link:

http://kingdoms.heavenforum.org/t667-what-is-your-favorite-dragon


Personally, I don't think Ancient Dragon is ugly, I think it is actually the most beautiful of all.
I didnt say the ancient dragon is ugly. I said he has a ugly weapon3 damage/AoE

Take the sea dragon for example, he has a great weapon3 damage, but in exchange he has a poor weapon3AoE
The gold dragon has a great weapon3AoE but in exchange a poor Weapon3Damage
The black Dragon has a balance between AoE and Dmg, and thats why its my favorite,

The ancient dragon has a poor weapon3AoE, and a poor weapon3Damage! Which is very odd, since the other Dragons are well balanced
Also he has the worst health.

About the neo dragon I agree with you!

Maybe the lack of power of the Anci Dragon is related to the boost of the Shamans Question Idea
They give 1.2x Attack and Defense to nearby allies, in a AoE of 200! 200 is the same AoE of the FireMage's meteor.

Also by looking at the shaman's aura, I noticed its possible to make an aura that boost enemies as well,
So imagine if that were a unit that could decrease the enemys defense by 0.8x, cloak it, send 5 and let it on the side of some structure. LOL, probably unbalanced but interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:39 pm

IMP_ARTHAN wrote:
As for online games, no one makes them, since we play pure aggressive rush nowdays, so why should I care for who is the best anyway?
You definitely haven't played enough online games if you are saying this. Those dragons are used very often especially on treb games, team games, etc. Pure agressive rush is an expression used by new players to adjective the older and more skilled players. Sometimes that top player isn't even rushing, it's just that he is so used to the game, to the game's hotkeys, interface and everything else, that he is able to move everything quicker than the others.

About the topic, the dragons are clearly very similar. There's only a best dragon for some type of situations. If the game is so stuck and full of AA, definitely Black Dragon may be the most suitable, since he can go, wave and go back very quickly. Sea Dragon is good against others dragons, because he has something not listed in Spagg's table. It's the range of his second weapon and also the fact that it is a good guided bubble.

Another example, if the game is stuck and it's a team game, grouped and short mana map, sometimes the game gets to a point that you need a veteran dragon to change the game. And since it's a short mana map, the cheap Gold Dragon may be the best choice.

Knowing the differences between the dragons is definitely not useless, is it a noob game, is it a pure rush game.
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:33 pm

Game Over wrote:
IMP_ARTHAN wrote:
As for online games, no one makes them, since we play pure aggressive rush nowdays, so why should I care for who is the best anyway?
You definitely haven't played enough online games if you are saying this. Those dragons are used very often especially on treb games, team games, etc. Pure agressive rush is an expression used by new players to adjective the older and more skilled players. Sometimes that top player isn't even rushing, it's just that he is so used to the game, to the game's hotkeys, interface and everything else, that he is able to move everything quicker than the others.

About the topic, the dragons are clearly very similar. There's only a best dragon for some type of situations. If the game is so stuck and full of AA, definitely Black Dragon may be the most suitable, since he can go, wave and go back very quickly. Sea Dragon is good against others dragons, because he has something not listed in Spagg's table. It's the range of his second weapon and also the fact that it is a good guided bubble.

Another example, if the game is stuck and it's a team game, grouped and short mana map, sometimes the game gets to a point that you need a veteran dragon to change the game. And since it's a short mana map, the cheap Gold Dragon may be the best choice.

Knowing the differences between the dragons is definitely not useless, is it a noob game, is it a pure rush game.

Nice! I am really happy about reading this! I thought I have played plenty of online games and 98% of them were rush, but now I see I have sooo many things to learn and try yet! Thanks, Landher! I hope to have a great match online, like the ones you've described above, quite soon!
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:10 pm

No problem, Artha...

By the way what I described usually happens in team games of players of more or less the same level, at least average players.
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:16 pm

Updated =P
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:50 pm

Hahahaha in mon fight it's simple : Elsin>Lokken>Kirenna>Sage>Thirsha

Well now if you are enough good and may block all veruna bubble you may even win with Sage lol.

Same, Lokken may the best on mon fight too, his second attack has more chance to deal damage, but no way if you're good enough on it, it would be like i said above heh
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:54 pm

And if i wouldnt rate them from mon fight

i would say : Thirsha>Lokken>Kirenna>Elsin>Sage

thirsha has flying, easier to wave and we have bad reflex to counter it, Lokken has a good regen mana and can wave more than any other monarch, he can also use the strat K to not be the target and wave like if nothing happen ^^

kirenna may use water to wave, and is the best runner ^^.

Elsin is more tanky. And sage is a prick ^^
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:13 pm

Joker wrote:
Hahahaha in mon fight it's simple : Elsin>Lokken>Kirenna>Sage>Thirsha

Well now if you are enough good and may block all veruna bubble you may even win with Sage lol.

Same, Lokken may the best on mon fight too, his second attack has more chance to deal damage, but no way if you're good enough on it, it would be like i said above heh


I dont think Lokken can be better than Elsin on mon fights

His 2nd attack is weaker than the other monarchs 1st attack

Also Kirenna can easily hit an mon behind a gate with curve bubble

If ghosting is allowed, Thirsha becomes a overpowered monarch, if the enemymon is running from ur ally mon, ghost like 5 totems in front of him, ghost in front of the mon so he cant attack, ghost in front of Kirenna when she is firing bubbles

Also, how Lokken will wave while cloaked if cloak burns mana when moving?
In my opinion mon fights is

Elsin>Kirenna>Lokken>Thirsha>Sage

Sage is good to kill watch tower/archers/catapults/mortars! But is shitty in monfights LOL
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:47 pm

tsss you just need experience u_u . wanna 1v1 me with taros versus veruna mon fight ? lol well for me its obvious. and i think it is for mostly of us.

Ok i would like to see you shadow with thirsha too ^^ i dont remember who found it probably landherr; i'd love to see you make 5 totem shadows ^^
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:00 pm

Challenge Accepted

Ill make a video of me making 5 totem-ghosts before the first one disappears

Maybe Kirenna isnt that good in a frontal 1v1, but she can get your mon in surprise, since her bubble is very ranged

Oh and her wave is flashy-ts-boom
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:54 pm

I admit it was a bit hard and its impossible to do in the tense of the battle
But here it is

http://youtu.be/KsxqLoYVn7c
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:49 pm

Spagg wrote:
http://youtu.be/KsxqLoYVn7c
lol at making more than 1 Tammuz Very Happy

Joker is talking about the Lokken's 2nd weapon's area (of effect), and it costs 250 mana. It's larger than the Elsin's meteorus, that costs 300 mana. About waving and getting cloaked, monarchs need 900 mana to wave, so Lokken has those 100 extra mana to cloak which, with some skill, is enough to survive even against big crowds. Not to mention his 25 mana regen, against 15 of the other monarchs.

There's too much about monarchs and dragons to mention just in some posts in a forum topic...
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:57 pm

Thats not enough to make him better than Elsin on mon fights, his 2nd weapon isnt as fast as Elsin's.
His 2nd weapon isnt as longranged as Kirenna's
After your mon is hit by a Lokken FireBall, you will quickly defend from the others, so you will take minor damage,
If your mon were hit by a Elsin/Kirenna 2ndattack, you would still quickly defend from the others, but would take much more damage.

I used Tammuz cuz Death Totem doesnt leave a "shadow" and is more difficult to see in the Radar, so I quickly modded Tammuz limit LOL
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:07 pm

about dragons
i will add some my opinion

1st weapon attack everyone got almost the same (ok sea dragon seems the best cause of reload time 2,5 comparing to 3 for other dragon (and this weapon in my opinion isn't very useful for this strategy unit)

2nd weapon attack everyone got almost the same dmg
-more important seems reload time (all dragons got 2,5s expect 3s ancient dragon(he really sux)
-and range (cause weapon have bigger chance to hit birds (mayor source of easy expirence) and hit from bigger distance enemy dragon) 800 sea dragon 750 ancient 700 gold 675 black
-time for disappear hmm this one need to be tested dunno who got the most surving balls (everybody want to catch enemy dragon)

3rd
ancient sux at this once again he got edge of effectivnes 55% so he is worse than sea dragon in effective AoE
and everything others about this weapon is wrote in first post of topic

my opinion
for 3 weapon and speed 1st black dragon
for 2 weapon (good hunter dragon, and easier to expirence by enemy spy birds) 2nd sea dragon
for pretty AoE but sux speed 3rd gold dragon
for zhon origin ancient dragon (buehehehe)



Edit

whats mean aimtolerance is good to have big or not or it depends?

Edit 2

how compare weapon velocity (example speed of 2nd weapon dragons 350 375 400) to units speed (example speed of dragons 7 8 9)
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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:24 pm

On-my-way wrote:
whats mean aimtolerance is good to have big or not or it depends?

Well, I don't know if it is right, or if TA:K works like this, but I found it (I made some modifications to the explanation be better than the original)... lol

"aimTolerance is the maximum angle (or a modifier to the maximum angle) at which an unit considers a target to be shootable."

Source: http://www.neurohack.com/transcendence/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1801&sid=e831706b6ffc391691300dd7352ce2b5

So, I think that higher it is, better!

Hope it helps... Smile

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PostSubject: Re: [Best & Worst]Legendary Dragons   Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:49 pm

i thought that is something about it ("ability" to shot but hmm thirsha got the same as others (weapon 1st 2nd) and she is able to shot backward but maybe i bad understand this and its not about it)
lol its seems really complicated

.
.
.
ok
but anyway why all of this statistics is 1024xN (almost all expect mon wave and some others)
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