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$ MalinOMW

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PostSubject: how to deal with creon   Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:18 pm

as topic

how zhon can beat creon?

(both players play well)
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:34 pm

1) Rush; Zhon can simply rush Creon, like every other race. Thirsa can wave Mechanics and Sage, unlike other Monarchs, can't strike her back effectively.
2) Troll RocDrops; Trolls can't be frozen and have bonuses against Forts.
3) Harpys can convert Beast Riders.
4) Golbins are good against Tortoises.

That's all, for now.
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:51 pm

Hunt sages slow \"***\" with wolfs ;d
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:06 am

wolf can be froze Very Happy
but risen wolf not

goblin can be froze also

sage got the best damage per second with 1st atack (505 elsin got 500 no big difference but still Very Happy ), but ya his 2nd is useless against zhon

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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:15 pm

But if the creon player uses firewagons then zhon is doomed (well the rush is doomed). 3 or 4 fore wagons plus sages fire can take a hefty chunk out of thirshas health, and with her usual delay in waving that would end the rush early.

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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:27 pm

Thirsa can wave fast, just manually target the ground. Thirsa can make a Handler, then rush to Sage's base, wave stuff and retreat without being at great danger. Fire Wagons are raped by wave, Monarches aren't. The thing than really rapes Thirsa is mon's 2nd attack (it almost takes one fourth of her health on an instant).
If you freeze Goblins you're desperated. Furthermore, if you're really afraid of freezing, use Roc to protect builders from it or just Troll the Creonites (litteraly Troll them!).
I don't get why you think Zhon can't handle Creon. Creon is very easily raped by Zhon in typical 1v1 games...
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:13 pm

Yep, u can wave, wagons are weak. Academy is expensive. Its hard to defend sage once zhon gets tamer. And once zhon gets lord there is rocs and giants

It makes for a gg imo but it rly depends on map
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:48 pm

That's mine strategy:

I don't like rushes, so rush won't be an option.

1- Advance with Totem+Stone giants+Hunters+Totem+Stone Giants+Hunters+some vision (Stone giant unfreezeable, totems unfreezeable and have a good aim, hunters are freezeable but they are cheap, and if the enemy use a neo dragon to kill your hunters, he lost 8756 mana doing it, hunters cost 311 each, neo dragon should freeze about 28 hunters to cover its value (neo dragon's wave won't freeze 28 hunters in 1 hit) and some vision to your stone giants see what's coming and kill it)... While you hold forward, make some basilisk and roc to function as "tricks up its sleeve", if your attack is being raped by beast riders, send the rocs with basilisk and stone them! (I guess Harpy is too fragile and slow to take beast riders) Keep advancing and ready. (surely you need practice first to be a success) :S

Well, that's why creon is OP, while zhon needs to be prepared like that with lots of strategies and tricks, creon just make: wagons, beast rider and neo dragon! \"****\' YOU CREON, I HATE YOU! LOL

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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:12 pm

That is a good strategy! My zhon strat is drop ASAP!!!!!! And totems on hills and berms with a sacred fire behind them is good too Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:50 am

DK-Manolo wrote:

Well, that's why creon is OP, while zhon needs to be prepared like that with lots of strategies and tricks, creon just make: wagons, beast rider and neo dragon! \"****\' YOU CREON, I HATE YOU! LOL

Creon was meant for less micro-management, so it favors noobs overall.
* Less units, so less difficult choices.
* Strong and versatile units, so even a small army is a reliable army to command.
* Long building time, so less building micro-management. Even Automatons made by corpses via Chief Engineers take long to be made not just for balacing reasons, but for less micro-management as well.

There were players who thought TA:Kingdoms is a very difficult RTS to play because you need to be very fast, to micromanage many things at once etc. Creon is the best TAK race to satisfy newbs who hate micromanagement and I think Cavedog built Creon like that mostly for this reason (and also offered a brand new awesome TAK race to the audience!).
However, like any race in any RTS, a veteran Creon player knows how to use his units better than a Creon newby...
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:43 pm

ya creon hadnt much value of strategy
ASAP academy neo, riders, sometimes prismatic or tortoise rush

in my opinion zhon is the hardest race units after build need some command they dont have auto patrols (its bad specially for bats* u need to still remeber for discover area)


but anyway i think the most OP is aramon (with trebuchet ofc and also without but no so much) specially on 3rd maps where is easy to defend and u dont need to expand which make the best defended race OP

on cd/dc maps taros/zhon have usually bigger chance due to mobility (ghost ship/moving factory) strong drops which make hard to defend keep/citadel on whole map,
creon seems also good on cd/dc maps due to easier froze unprotect builders


*bats seems the most suxs spy due to long build time and no auto move after build

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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:37 am

Aramon is OP. Which makes it easier to use. I can barely handle zhon. Rachy is a beast with Zhon.... Rachy can own anyone with zhon. It is just so hard to manage

Aramon is the easiest to manage, Then veruna, Taros, Creon, And last Zhon

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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:34 am

Lord ZacDom wrote:
....... Aramon is the easiest to manage, Then veruna, Taros, Creon, And last Zhon

in my opinion easy of playing
Aramon

*i think creon seems easier cause of prismatic mirrors, sometimes just gonna be enough to spam them without good protection (only give vision for them to snipe enemy birds and other stuff) them and they can be hard to destroy, or/and spam beast riders is also effective

**veruna can be hard later without any range cannoner fire demon etc but got pretty rush units are cheap

***sometimes is enough to spam with fire demons pretty aim to flyspy make hard to discover taros and snipe fire demons, but taros have many weird tactics which seems sometimes hard to make (some kind of drops, monarch seems the weakest for novices but he isn't)


anyway aramon seems the easiest and zhon the hardest
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:39 pm

No way Creon is harder than Aramon!
Aramon has plenty of units you need to play well in order to use effectively (Ark, Grenadier, Flying Builder, Assassin, Rolling Tower, Titan, Acolyte) while Creon has only 4 units they really need thinking (Shock Trooper, Bomb Sprinkler, Submersible, Chief Engineer).
Aramon is not just Cannoneer, Knight, Mage Archer or Trebuchet spamming; it seems like this in 3rd party maps, but only people who don't know how to really play with Aramon spam cannons. Also, in CD/DC maps, things are much more difficult for Aramon. But Creon's gameplay doesn't change a lot, no matter what the map. They don't have many options in the first place.
Obviously, Creon is by far the easiest race for a newb, let alone we never rush newbs (it is unethical), so they have time to expand as Creon.
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:56 pm

IMP_ARTHAN wrote:
Aramon is not just Cannoneer, Knight, Mage Archer or Trebuchet spamming; it seems like this in 3rd party maps, but only people who don't know how to really play with Aramon spam cannons. Also, in CD/DC maps, things are much more difficult for Aramon.

Aramon IS just cannoneer, knight, mage archer and trebuchet (you can easily win with that combination)... Depends on what race are you fighting with. If you are aramon, and enemy is zhon, you will surely make assasins and switch your acolyte to 2nd weapon, and make lots of mage archer spreaded...

I guess Aramon and Veruna are the best races for the most CD/DC maps...

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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:02 pm

Aramon is easier - more prolly to win or stand on its own for all players - because elsin is tough, strategy is simpler and more widely known (mage archer + cannon + treb). Then you have cheap gates to defend

Cd dc you cant forget zhon and taros on a lot of maps, but veruna is still best overall

Creon is harder because people hardly used it offline or online and because Sage sucks on early game. On late game its trebbed to death. Of course the talk is different between 2 good players

and OMW, veruna has catapult and mortar, but of course you don't have any mobile strong unit like cannon,beast rider and stone giant

ps: aramon isn't just that, you also have horses and elsin and gate and barbarian and acolyte and flying builder and titan and... ;P I hardly ever make assassin because they are weak, take too long to build and im better off investing on cheaper mage archers to prevent drop instead of dealing with it
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:06 pm

DK-Manolo wrote:
..........I guess Aramon and Veruna are the best races for the most CD/DC maps...

dunno why but i cant agree
i always thought that spread mana maps make more difficult for camp race like aramon and little veruna they dont have any fly bit-chies drops , or destructive magic units like weather witch + GS,

but on the other hand for defense of any zhon drop some assasins* make all job, for destroy GS need only some archers :S
need to fight with someone to see what that looks in real, but veruna dont have any units against drops (expect regular/ordinary crossbowam which suxs against any orcs)

*-1 hit for drake, troll, goblin, hunter, beast tamer handler.
-2 hit roc (it something 1,3 assasin Very Happy ), stone giant,jungle, beast lord
why assasin dont have pretty dmg against undead it would be great against spam zombie

ya on cd/dc maps assasins can kill units effective as creon froze,

I must try it against zhon assasins + mage archers + archers Very Happy


Landherr
try sometime assasin
2 assasin can stop effective drop
5 mage archers not ( just drop 1-2 jungle, archer gonna be raped) but ya archers seems more effective on frontline and against spy, they are so hybrid
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PostSubject: Re: how to deal with creon   Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:18 pm

Assassins are useful yeah but they hardly ever unbalance the game imo
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